Ask HN: Really tired of crappy languages. Time for MBA?

[refocus]

I'm working at a company that recently decided to move most of its future work into Java (instead of Python). Not Scala or Clojure, but actual Java-the-language Java. Needless to say, I'm not happy. Every company where I've worked at that uses C++ or Java as its main development languages lurches toward perpetual maintenance, huge teams, and general mediocrity.

Unfortunately, the leading languages are still C++ and Java. Jobs exist in good languages, but they're few and far between and it seems inevitable that a company will end up Java'd as it grows large and decisions start being made by non-programmers. (I think it's safe to assume that no one familiar with other languages ever chooses to program in Java; it's a language that people make other people use.)

I don't want to program anymore if 50% or more of my future programming career is going to be spent in shitty languages that prioritize the interests of non-programming managers over the people actually programming.

It just infuriates me to have to use shitty tools and be 10% as productive as I could be.

Is it time for me to leave the coding thing and get an MBA?

[brownegg]

I think you need to drink something other than the Kool-Aid. Java has its warts, but all languages do. Get over yourself.

[refocus]

I've been programming for 10 years and have used a wide variety of languages. Lisp, Scala, Clojure, Python, Java, C++, C, Ocaml, Haskell, and Go, plus a variety of math/statistical langauges.

Java/C++ development just isn't fun. It takes way too long to accomplish simple things. In fact, the process sucks all the fun out of it. The boilerplate is monstrous, the code looks like someone else wrote it, and there isn't much interactivity to the process since the Java Way is to write and tinker with monolithic, huge systems rather than create new things that can do something useful within an afternoon.

ETA: All languages have flaws but it's still fun to program in, e.g., Python or Scala. The flaws of these languages usually manifest in low-impact "well shit, that's annoying" irritations, not systemic constantly-grinding drags on productivity that will never go away.

[SamReidHughes]

It seems to me like getting a job using Python or Scala would be a much better option then.

[hashbo]

I have to agree, I've programmed in a good few languages over the years and really you need to go with what makes you happy and keeps you paid. I write in Java everyday and love it to bits. I have a fantastic IDE and I know my language inside out as well as a good few APIs.

But you know what, a JavaScript programmer could say just the same or a RoR guy.

The 'Get over yourself' part maybe a little harsh but there is some reality to it. Do what works for you sure, but generating negativity towards other languages will just make you unhappy. Instead ask top developers in each language/platform why they like their language/platform you'll learn loads and maybe gain an appreciation for the variation and multiplicity that we're fortunate to have.

Then go and work somewhere where you like the language :-)

[Donito]

You're thinking in the wrong order. You don't pick a language first, then solve a problem with it. Instead, you should look at the problem you're trying to solve, and which tools are best adapted to solving it given your requirements (that you come up with).

Are you focused on creating something quick? something that scales? something optimized that needs to run as fast as possible? something portable?

For some Python, Scala, or Clojure will do. For others, C++ is, despite what you may call flaws, the language of choice.

That being said, if you're very attached to a specific technology, find a place (or create one) where it makes most sense using it.

[SamReidHughes]

Good programming jobs exist that focus on many languages, including C++ and Java. How will getting an MBA increase your ability to get these jobs, or some other job you like?

Oh and people do deliberately choose to write in Java. Mibbit is one example of this.

[tolitius]

"Is it time for me to leave the coding thing and get an MBA?"

Do you need someone to tell you a "supportive" NO, or you want to hear an encouraging "YES"?

Do you need MBA? Go for it. But don't blame Java.

Do you NOT need MBA? Don't go for it. But don't blame Java.

[joshontheweb]

Try working for smaller companies or startups. There are plenty of Python/Ruby jobs in that category.

[eli_gottlieb]

No, not time for an MBA. Then you'll be the one imposing shitty languages on everyone else.

Go Learn You a Haskell. That should cure you of the impulse to come near PL for a while.

The rest is commentary.

[refocus]

No, not time for an MBA. Then you'll be the one imposing shitty languages on everyone else.

Actually, if I get an MBA I'd like to be a white knight, by which I mean the rare good guy who carries a sword.

[kracekumar]

Why not shift your company ?

[refocus]

In spite of my dislike for Java, I've found a good one (company, that is) and I know how rare they are. If I can stay where I am, I'd rather. But if I'm full-time Java 6 months from now, yes, that is what will happen.