[kmlx]

> I was in India earlier this year, and found there was no way (and I spent hours trying) for a foreigner to get access to the UPI system.

never been to India. do they not support credit cards like the rest of the planet? visa/mastercard/amex? only UPI?

[berkes]

"the rest of the planet" doesnt accept visa/Mastercard just anywhere and certainly not amex. In e.g. The Netherlands, mostly cashless society now, creditcards are hardly ever used by locals and so many POS won't have the infra to accept CC payments.

The world is not the US and the US isn't the world.

[kmlx]

> the rest of the planet" doesnt accept visa/Mastercard just anywhere

most of the developed world does. even Eastern Europe have transformed themselves into a NFC bonanza.

> The Netherlands

the netherlands is the wrong example. it has always been an outlier when it comes to card payments. case in point: you can't even make a Visa/Mastercard payment in an AH supermarket, you need a Maestro card.

> The world is not the US and the US isn't the world.

i have travelled quite a bit. most the of the developed world (except for the Netherlands of course) has full support for Visa/Mastercard NFC. and Amex support is more and more spread (e.g. i have seen more and more Stripe in Greece lately). the world is moving on from the idea you have of it.

[avianlyric]

Visa/Mastercard aren’t as ubiquitous as people imagine, despite Visa/Mastercard trying to acquire their way to global market dominance.

The are many developed and developing countries that operate their own card networks, peer-to-peer payment technologies, and generally cheaper faster alternatives to Mastercard/Visa, with many merchants preferring them to their U.S. counterparts.

Visa/Mastercard may have dominance in the English speaking west, and many tourists location for the English speaking west, but assuming Visa/Mastercard is some gold standard the world should aspire to is very naïve. In reality alternatives like UPI and other peer-to-peer systems are more likely to be the payment systems of the future. Continued Mastercard/Visa dominance in its current form only really makes sense in countries with outdated and inadequate banking infrastructure, like the U.S.

[kmlx]

> In reality alternatives like UPI and other peer-to-peer systems are more likely to be the payment systems of the future.

i find that very hard to believe as the user interaction for qr codes is a step backwards from using an nfc with a phone’s wallet. and once you use the nfc solution it’s very hard to switch back to a system that is less friendly.

of course, if you take the QR codes out of the equation and replace with NFC then i see no issues.

> Continued Mastercard/Visa dominance in its current form only really makes sense in countries with outdated and inadequate banking infrastructure, like the U.S.

you are wrong. if anything the system is getting more widely used. europe for example has very advanced banking infra and is all in on nfc, with mastercard/visa/amex widely accepted, and the system is being adopted everywhere.

[avianlyric]

> of course, if you take the QR codes out of the equation and replace with NFC then i see no issues.

There’s no reason p2p payments can’t operate over NFC. It’s just a short distance communication technology, it’s little more than an implementation detail in a payment network, and not significant to fundamental operation or economics of a payment network.

The fact Mastercard/Visa have a monopoly on NFC payments on phones is a big reason why the EU is investigating ApplePay and Apple NFC API restrictions.

> you are wrong. if anything the system is getting more widely used. europe for example has very advanced banking infra and is all in on nfc

I don’t think you appreciate the timeline here. Contactless payments have existed in Europe for over a decade, it basically at peak adoption already. Alternative P2P payments and technology like OpenBanking is only just getting started, and Mastercard/Visa are already worried, they’ve already made big acquisitions in Open Banking tech and alternative payment networks to ensure they don’t get cut out of the profits long term.

Ultimately payment technologies are chosen by merchants, not customers. If alternatives offer cheaper payments, and more importantly, faster merchant settlement, then merchants are going to start exploring those options. If companies like Apple are forced to open up their NFC stacks, and let others build alternative wallet and payment networks on them, then Mastercard/Visa current technical advantage will disappear very quickly.

That very advanced banking infra you speak off will forms the backbone of alternative payment technologies, why would anyone want to pay a middleman for a service their bank can provide directly, and provide much cheaper?

[pb7]

> why would anyone want to pay a middleman for a service their bank can provide directly, and provide much cheaper?

Visitors can show up and immediately pay for things with ease, for one.

[captn3m0]

I paid almost eveywhere in Amsterdam with my Indian Visa card and it worked quite well.

Even the GBV Transport network lets you use NFC cards directly, without having to buy a separate card or ticket. You get a charge 6 days later after they tally up your trips.

I like UPI, but paying with NFC Cards is so much simpler, easier, and faster.

[berkes]

Amsterdam is a tourist hub. And even in Amsterdam, local focused places, like supermarkets or a pharmacy will often only take maestro.

[arapacana]

absolutely ridiculous that the class-based "developed world" label is still around, as if most parts of Asia aren't at the same developmental and infrastructural level as America. India is up there :)

[Semaphor]

Germany is another outlier. Mainly big chains will accept amex, and small places might not accept credit cards in general, though that has been getting better thanks to SumUp.

[kmlx]

yes, germany loves cash. always has.

[leesalminen]

The vast majority of businesses in Costa Rica are required by law to accept cards, Amex included.

[tbbfjotllf]

> "the rest of the planet" doesnt accept visa/Mastercard just anywhere

India does have the infrastructure and accepts credit cards but it's not available everywhere and UPI is more widespread in India. It can be found in street side sellers to massive retail stores. While the street side sellers won't have the methods to accept credit cards, massive stores probably will and there are always ATMs so cash is a thing. For travel we have Uber, and Uber accepts credit cards. so, You don't need UPI but it's a great convenience to have. On the other hand, Not having Internet access after you get out of the airport is definitely a problem.

[Tijdreiziger]

The transition from Maestro/VPay to MasterCard/Visa debit cards in the Netherlands is now nearly complete: https://www.betaalvereniging.nl/betaalproducten-en-diensten/...

[deskamess]

They accept credit cards in most well to do stores. However street side shops probably do not. Most business avoid it due to the fee. UPI has them hooked with no-fee right now but fees are expected in the future. But right now, they have a no-fee option which is better than mc/visa/amex.

[kmlx]

thanks for the comment. yeah, i expected as much.

[kylehotchkiss]

Amex acceptance in India is really good. Hotels, malls, Ubers, restaurants all take it without issue. I mean you can't buy food from local stalls, but as a foreigner visiting it's better to stick with branded restaurants to avoid food sickness (and if you're going someday, pack Imodium, best thing to get back on your feet after just a day)

[chupchap]

It is accepted in most restaurants and shops, but for transactions of lower amounts UPI is preferred due to the fee involved with visa and mastercard