[User23]

> Are we still worried about porn in 2023?

I guess that the percentage of people who approve of their preteen children watching porn is still a rather small minority. In fact globally I'd bet the majority of adults don't even approve of themselves watching porn.

More broadly speaking, assuming we're roughly of the same generation, I'm not sure our parents' borderline neglectful approach to children (latchkey, ads at 10 PM to remind them we exist, not being let in the house during the day) is one that's worthy of emulation.

[whateverman23]

I'm a millennial, for context.

So much to unpack here.

These restrictions just don't make sense to me. I was a pretty reserved child, so I can't imagine getting over all the hurdles needed to grow as a person and foster my love for programming/tech:

- Asking for permission to read all the random Perl forums or IRC chats I stumbled upon just wouldn't be a thing I would have done.

- My parents probably wouldn't have understood what it all was and denied my request. Early on I probably wouldn't have even been able to explain why I needed that access.

- Remember installing linux for the first time? Sorry, not going to happen because the stalkerware doesn't work on linux.

- You want access to a website called "hacker news"?? No way! (HN wasn't really a thing I think back in my childhood but you get the idea).

-----

Second, I was a latchkey kid. Having two working parents is neglectful? What would have been the alternative?

And my point with the porn is that it's not worth locking everything down for fear that your child is going to see some boobs. It's not worth it, and it seems that it's the driving force or a lot of these restrictions.

[User23]

> see some boobs

That's either a stupid or a dishonest description of the Internet pornography we're talking about here.

[whateverman23]

Please focus on the core message of my post rather than three words.

If you're so concerned with Internet pornography that you want to lock down your child's digital life and know every single thing they say and do, then so be it. We probably won't change each other's minds.

[User23]

Why should an ISP know more about a child’s Internet activity than the parents?

For what it’s worth my personal philosophy would be trust, but verify. That necessarily entails some way to verify.

Furthermore, in many jurisdictions parents are civilly or even potentially criminally liable for their childrens’ activities. If you’re in one of those jurisdictions you have a duty to prevent your child from breaking the relevant laws or other rules.

[whateverman23]

> Why should an ISP know more about a child’s Internet activity than the parents?

They shouldn't. Fight the ISPs.

> For what it’s worth my personal philosophy would be trust, but verify. That necessarily entails some way to verify.

Again, trust what? Do all roads lead to porn?

> Furthermore, in many jurisdictions parents are civilly or even potentially criminally liable for their childrens’ activities. If you’re in one of those jurisdictions you have a duty to prevent your child from breaking the relevant laws or other rules.

Really grasping at straws here. What laws are you worried your child will break that would reasonably reach the level you're worried about?

[User23]

> Again, trust what?

Trust that they aren’t harming themselves or others. The Internet is an extremely powerful tool and all powerful tools are potentially dangerous.

The pen is mightier than the sword and the Internet is to the pen as the sword is to the thermonuclear bomb.

[rufus_foreman]

>> I'm not sure our parents' borderline neglectful approach to children (latchkey, ads at 10 PM to remind them we exist, not being let in the house during the day) is one that's worthy of emulation

Latchkey is a little after I grew up, mid Gen X, I think the premise is that these kids with working parents would run home alone and lock themselves inside in terror because some kid somewhere got abducted and it made the news. I don't know what statistics there are around it, but that's my memory of the phrase latchkey. I don't remember locking the door when I was a kid, we didn't live in a great neighborhood.

But I was a beneficiary of the borderline neglectful approach to children, and I'm certainly glad I grew up that way. I got kicked out of a bar for the first time when I was 10 or 11, and when I was 14, I would go to hardcore punk shows a hundred miles from home and my mom had no idea where I was. "I'm sleeping over at Joe's house tonight". Maybe "Joe" existed, maybe he didn't, but either way, I am at a show learning how to stage dive.

So it's weird reading how closely people watch their kids these days, and I'm not criticizing, people raise their kids how they raise their kids, none of my business. But I am reminded of one friend whose house I stayed at a couple times, he actually had two parents, if you can believe that, and they monitored everything he did, asked him questions about everything, listened to his answers, and he had to ask for permission for everything. On one hand I could tell he was lucky he had parents who cared about him and wanted the best for him, but I also remember feeling so, so sorry for him.