[batista]

What exactly is sexism? Behaving as sexes DO exist, and, for example, men can like the look of certain females? Well, sexes DO exist, and men do like the look of certain females. To state otherwise would be hypocrisy.

And it's not like liking women or wanting to go to a bar that has pretty waitresses (and vice versa for women) if somehow taking advantage of the other sex. No more than wanting to go to a concert is taking advantage of people with nice voices and musical skills.

So, are we disallowing sexual desire and/or lust? If not, we are just advocating hypocrisy. I.e think it, but don't say/act as if you think it.

Seems to my European mind that Americans will be puritans whatever their political inclinations are. If they are of the Bible inclination (Bible belt etc), they will be all serious, sex is evil, abolish sexy looks, etc.

If they are of the liberal inclination (democrats etc), they will be all serious, sex is insulting, sexual references show intolerance and or exploitation, we should hide sexuality when in polite/professional company, etc.

Once a puritan, always a puritan.

[cgoddard]

There are proper places for sexuality, objectification, etc. A professional / workplace environment isn't one of them. It makes people uncomfortable and can contribute to a hostile work environment. The fact is people don't have as much choice over their coworkers as their friends, and they can't easily avoid unwanted interactions as easily as they can in choosing their social circles.

As far as sexism goes when you make assumptions about your audience, you make anyone who doesn't fit those assumptions feel unwelcome. It doesn't mean you should never make assumptions, but always be aware who you are excluding and if you have a good reason for excluding them.

[batista]

There are proper places for sexuality, objectification, etc. A professional / workplace environment isn't one of them. It makes people uncomfortable and can contribute to a hostile work environment.

Well, that might be a cultural thing though. We don't particularly care about such things in other parts of the world (that doesn't mean we run around naked in the workplace).

And actually neither did the US until like the nineties or so.

[scarmig]

Yes, being upset at someone emphasizing that there will be women around to serve you beers is tantamount to disallowing sexual desire. It's totally like 1984.

[batista]

Yes, being upset at someone emphasizing that there will be women around to serve you beers is tantamount to disallowing sexual desire.

Yes it is. It is disallowing sexual desire to be expressed, and only allowing it to exist in private (thoughts or practice).

What's wrong with a place that has women serving beers, if some men would like such a place to exist? Did anybody FORCE those women to serve beer?

If it's an equality issue, well, build places where men with firm buttocks serve beer too. Hell, I'll serve at such a place, even though my buttocks ain't what they were.

[lwhi]

Imagine you were a developer who happened to be a woman. Then imagine that it's inferred you should be serving beer if you're hot enough.

The bro thing is a celebration of a certain cliched fantasy of what masculinity should be. It's a cheap shot.