[Tozen]

In the link you posted (id=36816398), never saw it until this, as the entire series of posts were deleted away from the main thread. So was not aware of the situation, and that it was being blamed on me specifically.

If you review those chain of posts, surely the account that first named V directly (not to even go into the list of many other antagonists), initiated and provoked by specifically targeting the V language. Including posting provocative or inflammatory links (which are spammed on most V threads).

I'm concerned that the definition of what constitutes instigating or being found at fault for starting a flamewar, appears directed at those who may respond with or show any support for V.

Those that are clearly instigating, continually snarky, or even directly insulting in their posts seem to go unpunished or ignored. Though, as a user, don't have the greater perspective on this.

Apologies on the rule violation, as often attempt to avoid crossing the line, and was just attempting to provide at least a contrasting point of view to what is continually taking place on the subject. After review, do see which rule was violated, which was not the original intent.

If you would be kind of enough to, can you instruct on how you view this situation?

[dang]

How I view the situation is:

(1) this topic turns into the same tedious and lame flamewar every time it comes up;

(2) your account has made the flamewars worse on many occasions;

(3) that's against HN's rules regardless of how badly other commenters may have behaved;

(4) the fastest way to nonplus a moderator is to respond to moderation by pointing the finger at others.

Also, I didn't just warn you once:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36816398 (July 2023)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33686314 (Nov 2022)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33686270 (Nov 2022)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33578462 (Nov 2022)

I'm sure V is a very nice language but HN doesn't need to have threads about it, and HN does need to not have flamewars, so this dynamic needs to stop. I'm talking about puerile drama like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37292351 (which incidentally was kickstarted by someone on your side, not the other side).

The best way for it to stop would be for those of you who feel aggrieved by unfair criticism to stop being provoked. The internet is the internet—critics will never go away, shit will always get repeated. But you guys have the power to stop feeding it. That would solve the problem, at least from an HN point of view, because the fires wouldn't keep growing if you didn't flood them with oxygen. But it means developing the capacity not to be so easily provoked, which (I know well from my own experience) is not so easy. It's worth the effort though.

In any case, it's off topic and destructive for HN. If the only way for us to be free of it is to never discuss that programming language at all, that would be a shame, but it would at least be better than the status quo, and a price we'll pay if we have to.

[Tozen]

Dang, I'm confused in how it appears V is regarded very differently from other languages and possible desire to completely censor it. I'm, however, highly sympathetic to moderation efforts at HN (for higher quality debates and opinions).

> I'm sure V is a very nice language but HN doesn't need to have threads about it

It looks to be giving the impression (maybe unintentionally) that threads about V are unwanted on HN. Where it's fine to have threads about other languages, despite them clearly having issues, controversy, or need of moderation as well.

All threads about V or posts initiated in a thread which concerns V, are not posted by "V's people" and definitely not by me. For that matter, I'm completely independent, despite what might be the perception. I have no relation nor any connection to who created this thread, or many others about V. I just was commenting on a topic that I saw on HN and expressing opinions.

> which incidentally was kickstarted by someone on your side, not the other side...

I have zero ideal who manofmanysmiles or modinfo are (both accounts existing years before mine), nor am I on their side or rather it's unfair to categorize us as being on the same side.

That someone posts something that contains a bit of support or is positive about V, can be completely unrelated to them being teamed up or in collusion, but just coincidental opinions or observations.

In fact, it appears manofmanysmiles is not a user of the language, but an outsider asking for opinions. Which then people posted their opinions in response, as would be expected for just about any topic or that kind of post.

> would be for those of you who feel aggrieved by unfair criticism to stop being provoked...

Would this not be true for both sides, not the side that is perceived as being supportive of V?

I thought the point of HN was to allow and respectfully give different opinions about a topic, not to censor a particular side or topic.

This definition could be interpreted that the positive side be removed. And purposefully allow damaging or negative information to be unchallenged and spread by default.

> critics will never go away

Totally agree, as this is the nature of human discussion.

> But it means developing the capacity not to be so easily provoked, which (I know well from my own experience) is not so easy.

If the meaning is to "grow a thicker skin" in response to criticism, on that we agree. A higher quality of respectful and informative discussion should be aspired to and engaged in, as part of maintaining the desired standard of HN. And would be why many, like myself, have enjoyed or have come here to see.

[dang]

Flamewars about anything are unwanted on HN.