[jurassic]

The cold weather performance is significantly worse, and as somebody who lives in a region with snowy winters I'm tired of the way environmental activists and car manufacturers both seem to be on the same page about pretending this isn't a problem. It also masks a big part of the cost of ownership, since in winter you need to charge a lot more often to drive the same distance as in warmer months. People can plan for shorter range, but they need to know what to realistically expect so they don't end up stranded on the side of the road in winter (this has happened to people I know). I plan to keep at least one ICE vehicle for longer trips and winter use until they are outlawed or we see a revolution in energy tech that makes this a non-issue.

[ajross]

Cold effects on range is more an issue of battery thermal management than efficiency. Cold reduces the cell voltage of the battery, it doesn't "steal" any energy. It's still in the battery, you just have to warm it up to get it out. Teslas in particular (ones built in the last 4 years or so) have pretty effective heat pumps to do this. Mine has taken me skiing more times than I can count, and while for sure range is a little lower (like, 15-20% or so) it's not "buy a separate car" lower.

Frankly I think you're overreacting and should go skiing in a Tesla a few times.

[foooorsyth]

>you just have to warm it up to get it out

Yeah, and this isn’t free. You also have to constantly heat the battery even when the vehicle isn’t being operated, which leads to vampire drain and/or runaway electric bills in cold garages.

Had a family member sell his Model 3 purely due to vampire drain in his unheated garage. His electric bill was getting run up $100-$200 a month in excess of normal just to keep the Model 3 alive.

Question: did you just vacation with an EV for a few days at your ski destination? Or have you actually lived (not vacationed) in a cold climate with an EV in an unheated garage? This issue is pretty significant for people actually living up north.

[ajross]

I think you're confused about your family member's anecdote. I'm telling you straight up that cold weather operation is a minor impact, 10-20% or so per the Teslamate data from 25k miles of travel in my Model Y. I don't know what to tell you except that you are simply wrong.

FWIW, "vampire drain" is a term from years ago, and indeed there were bugs at various times with various subsystems that led to faster-than-expected drain. No, the Tesla doesn't cost $200/month to heat a battery in the cold (which is like 1900W continuous at my rates, please be real).

[foooorsyth]

So you have a different car, in a different climate, with only 25k miles degradation, in a different energy market, but it didn’t happen to you so it’s not real. Tesla stans really are devoted to defending their purchases.

Anyways, my family member had a pre-heat pump Model 3 in very-cold-weather location with expensive energy. It absolutely did run him $100-$200 to keep the battery alive. Happy that Tesla has figured things out with your Y.

[ajross]

The discourse about this company is cursed.

You jumped into a thread where I pointed out in my first sentence that "Cold effects on range is more an issue of battery thermal management than efficiency" (verbatim).

Then you offered an anecdote about an older model of Tesla that lacked that feature, essentially agreeing with me on issues of technical fact, but pretended that this was somehow an issue with the entire product line. Then when I called you out on this nonsense (which remains untrue) you retreated to "but it was an older car without battery thermal management", conveniently forgetting that I'd pointed that out myself already and pretending that somehow this was an argument with me.

Then you called me a "stan" for good measure. Which one of us is arguing in good faith, do you think?

[foooorsyth]

You called me a liar because a major issue with EVs wasn't happening with your particular car. Want me to share the energy bills? EVs have major range and thermal management issues in the cold. Most consumers won't buy an EV with < 200 miles of range, and many EVs on the market will get less than 200 miles range with average use in subfreezing temps (including the base Model 3 and Y).

You're a stan. I like EVs btw, but I'm not deranged about their shortcomings.