[ruggeri]

I didn't watch the video you linked, but I accept your summary of his experience then (1 year ago). The video I link is from 2 weeks ago. A good half of the video is describing many frictions he has encountered with non-Tesla charging networks. Perhaps his experience/evaluation has changed in the intervening interval.

I personally have experienced those frictions myself, in my limited EV experience. I am glad that you have had a better experience - I absolutely want non-Tesla charging networks to be high reliability and easy to use! For everyone, but also for myself, since I don't want to purchase a Tesla.

In the final analysis, I don't know how Technology Connections feels about the state of non-Tesla charging networks. In fairness, I'm not sure you do either. It sounds like his experience was more positive a year ago. But from his most recent video, it doesn't sound like he feels like non-Tesla charging networks work very well or reliably.

To be clear on one point: I haven't encountered lines or interpersonal conflict at charging points. I have encountered plugs not working, payment not being accepted, and rates lower than advertised capability. Before I had those experiences, I had heard people on HN complain about CCS charging network reliability. After, I saw Technology Connections complain about it. All I can say is that my experience has corresponded with those reports.

[vel0city]

I don't know where you're getting "a good half of the video", it barely talks at all about his own personal experiences of CCS. It mostly talks about the history of the plugs, discusses Tesla's process of opening up NACS (and his previous reservations on it), describes how automakers are switching to it, talks about the slow roll out of CCS, talks about how Tesla chargers and 800V cars might not play nice for a while, and then talks about V2G. Could you give me some specific timestamps where he's spending half the video talking about these negative experiences? Which few sections are mostly his experiences? I've seen the video a few times before and just re-scrubbed/watched at 1.75x and I didn't see much of his personal experiences at all.

He does briefly touch on charging networks should work on reliability and just having a new connector won't necessarily improve reliability, but I'm not disagreeing with that. I've got no doubts those who do have bad experiences legit had bad experiences, I'm just suggesting it's often regional and not like every non-Tesla station is plagued with non stop problems. And given his own video publications it seems like his area and the places he traveled had reliable chargers. Maybe most of the issues are on the West coast. Either way that's not half the video nor is it really him talking personal experiences.

Also, kind of funny you're suggesting I watch a video when you refuse to watch one that rebuts your own points. You might want to re-watch both videos if you want to understand his experiences with EV charging. He's got a few of them, and they're generally not filled with routinely bad experiences.

Also, go check out Out of Spec Reviews. They've got a number of videos rightfully critical of the charging networks and several videos showing lots of them failing all at once. But notice how in most of his videos with CCS cars, the experience is almost always rolling up to a station with empty ready to use dispensers, plugging in, and getting a charge. And it doesn't get brought up like some "woah, its actually working this time!" No, instead he'll mention " these are some great Delta units" or "these ABB chargers are top notch" if anything gets mentioned at all. So obviously his experiences, which this is a guy that seems like he's practically on the road every day in multiple different EVs, seems like it's mostly that they work but with some big examples of them not.

[ruggeri]

At 19:37 https://youtu.be/ZJOfyMCEzjQ?si=cHgDdtSIutz-dWrZ&t=1177

"So now, why are automakers suddenly itching to make this switch? Well, there's a pretty simple answer: the CCS charging networks available here in the US all kinda suck."

Now, is that judgement based on his "personal experience?" I don't know. But that's what he says. He does say about Electrify America that while he's never "been stranded" by it, (18:37), he describes having problems with using the app to use the chargers. He describes more than half the stations having broken NFC readers. He says "It wasn't great and that experience is happening to far too many owners of new EVs." "Meanwhile, the Tesla supercharger network largely just works." He implies that redundancy at EA stations is insufficient (20:42). At 21:07 says that activating the charger is harder than it needs to be...

At 21:30: "The main problems with CCS networks are poor maintenance, horrible up-time, largely terrible apps which are often the only way to start charging, ..." He then says: "Let me go through those one-by-one." And the he does.

Through 26:56 (this section is labeled "The Many Reasons We're Switching"), he describes issues with non-Tesla charging networks. (You're right that he doesn't blame CCS for the problems, and neither do I.)

I didn't watch your video because I conceded your characterization of it. You don't agree with my characterization of this video, but I think you missed this section.

I don't think it's reasonable to characterize his take on non-Tesla CCS charging networks in this video as anything other than quite negative.

[vel0city]

Other than him experiencing broken NFC readers and poor app experience it doesn't sound like a lot of personal experiences being shared. Making general statements of uptime isn't necessarily personal; I also agree they should work on uptime because clearly other people do experience problems and I've seen dispensers down I've just used the open one next to them whenever that's the issue. That whole "Many Reasons We're Switching" is largely him talking generally, but a few specific personal experiences are mixed in as short quips (like the charging latches). Him talking about the networks going with more expensive cables and them being slower to replace the cables when failed isn't necessarily a personal experience, just explaining why they struggle with reliability.

As for the app experience, I wouldn't know, I don't use apps to activate the chargers. And that sounds like that was easily half his personal frustrations.

Do you have a CCS car? You mention a limited experience with charging networks. How many years have you used them? How many times have you tried charging at a non-Tesla charger?

[ruggeri]

You're moving the goalposts. He expresses his judgements about the reliability of CCS charging networks in the video. I suppose that you don't have to credit Technology Connections' assessment if you don't think it's based on his personal experience. But I think you now agree that his assessment (right or wrong) about the state of non-Tesla charging is not positive, and can be (and is) summarized as: "it kinda sucks". And that is what we have been disagreeing about.

I don't accept or trust your pivot to personalize the discussion by focusing on my personal experience. I never said I had vast experience with EV charging (I said it was limited). But for the benefit of anyone reading this thread, I will tell you my experience, and then I'm going to disengage with you.

I have owned a CCS vehicle (Toyota Rav4 Prime) for about 6mo. I live in San Francisco. I have tried to charge it about a dozen times at non-Tesla chargers. I succeeded one or two times. I have also observed friends charge their Tesla vehicles at Tesla chargers about a half dozen times.

In my personal experience, I have had connectivity problems (unable to pay because NFC didn't work, and EA app had no signal in a garage), and chargers labeled as up in the EVgo app were not functional. On the Plug Share app I have seen a non-functional station (https://www.plugshare.com/location/37345), where it has been labeled as up for over 12mo, during which time it has never worked. It happens to be the exact station I have most wanted to use.

Those are some of the exact problems Technology Connections mentions, which is why his video did resonate with me.

It sounds like you've had a good experience with non-Tesla charging, which is great. I wish my experience was as positive as yours, because I am unable to charge at home at my rental unit. I would love to have a great experience with non-Tesla charging, both for myself, and for wide adoption of non-Tesla EVs. It sounds like where you live non-Tesla charging infrastructure works more reliably than it has for me here.

Maybe you're going to tell me I'm a moron and don't know how to charge my car. But I haven't had a great experience at it.

[vel0city]

I'm not saying you're a moron or that your experiences didn't happen. I've suggested several times I think a lot of the worst experiences are possibly regional as the vast majority of bad experiences I see here mention being on the West coast. But telling people asking if it's normal for over half the chargers to be practically non-functional, always long lines, etc. as the norm across the whole US is a stretch. It would be like me telling someone outside the US summers for the whole country is like 105+F every day.

I'm not suggesting the non-Tesla chargers are perfect, I'm not even saying they're particularly great. They do need to have faster turn around when even a single dispenser goes offline. They've been adopting regular credit card terminals over needing the apps, which is how it should have been from the start. I'll definitely agree overall Tesla charging experience is better. They've been way more responsive to problems and made the better bet on cheaper but easier to replace components. I agree with practically everything he said in that video, but that doesn't mean it was personal experiences. A lot of my "they need to improve" agreement is looking at plugshare around the country, reading comments like yours, seeing videos on YouTube from places like Out of Spec Reviews, and others, but not much personal other than seeing like 1 of 4 chargers out at the places I've gone to.

I'm just suggesting it's not the way the OP said it is across the entire United States. The poster was essentially describing a charging hellscape, someone asked if it's like that across the whole US, and you said yes based on your experience in SF. Well, maybe SF isn't the whole US.

I am trying to suggest Alec's experience isn't as bad as failing to charge 83% of the time. It sounds like he had a road trip where the EA app was glitchy (which he'd prefer to use over a credit card as his car has free charging through the app), he's run into a few dispensers which should have worked save for a broken clip and used another one at the site, and he's seen some percentage of dispensers out of service when he's gone to charge but still managed to charge. But from most of the content he's posted over both of his channels and other channels he's participated in, it looks like his overall success rate is much higher than 17%. Can we agree on that?

Another poster here mentioned plenty of empty chargers in the Midwest. Another mentioned no problems in the PNW outside of holidays. Multiple people in California talk about charging hellscapes. Maybe it's not a US thing? Maybe we shouldn't tell people it is?