[oblio]

The standard fix for this is to put the devs on call.

Recurring operational issues get fixed mighty quickly when J. Dev has to wake up a few times at 02:00 on Saturday.

Heck, design and architectural issues suddenly get a lot of scrutiny at the whiteboard phase and people decide they don't really need Kafka or Kubernetes or Mesos or GenAI anymore.

[JohnFen]

If anyone is getting 2am calls more than extremely rarely, the process is already seriously broken.

[bobbruno]

That thinking is one reason why I left engineering and I don’t see myself coming back to it anytime soon. I don’t like being on-call, I’m not qualified to do Ops-like decisions and I haven’t seen this as the practice in most other industries - Boeing doesn’t have staff flying planes for the airlines, for one.

Compliance is a set of stories/tickets/requirements like any other, with a priority to be assigned and eventually worked and reworked at some point in the process. There’s nothing wrong with not addressing it as the first thing - it just blocks release. With that, it will eventually get worked on, hopefully at the time where the pieces that need it are understood and the work to reach it is understood.

[phillipcarter]

At a $LASTJOB all the devs had to be on call for some services and literally nothing improved. Still haphazardly throwing code into production, poor monitoring tools, and no time or desire to make stuff better. On-call was just seen as shitwork and devs would find other teams that didn't have on-call to transfer to.

[CM30]

That's kinda how it works at my current job, where a support rota is manned by members of the various development teams (front end dev, backend dev, app dev, platform ops, etc). You can indeed get woken up at 2am on a Saturday, and expected to fix whatever mission critical issue has popped up at that point.

It doesn't seem to have changed much as far as the architecture process goes though. With a few exceptions, the things that pop up for support to handle are usually either 'something broke on the content side, and the editors can't fix it', or a third party broke (glares at Google and Tag Manager, Musk and Twitter/X, etc)

[tstrimple]

This is why I am a fan of build & run teams instead of having a separate ops org which is responsible for keeping things running. The incentives aren’t aligned and almost always result in silos and excessive outages. The shared responsibility means no one is actually accountable and solvable issues persist for years. Almost every client I work with who has major ops issues have separate teams handling build and run aspects of their projects.

[hotsauceror]

In 15 years of experience here and there, only one has had on-call devs. I’ve come to the conclusion that neither dev nor their management care if someone else’s phone rings at 02:00. I’ve also seen open hostility to 1) the very idea of dev going on-call, and 2) technical recommendations for solutions to recurring issues. So I think it’s not quite “the standard fix”, in fact I think it’s pretty unrealistic.