[dimitrios1]

In the past you had reckless manufacturing and extracting -- chemical spills and dumping, burning of an incredible amount of coal, deforestation, etc. But it was tapered by fewer people overall with disposable income, and the lack of throwaway culture and waste, less plastic, etc.

Now we have more efficient processes with less waste, we have renewable sources of forestation, renewable energy sources, less coal, less chemical spills and dumping, but every body can afford and have the things that were once considered luxuries. Everyone has an HVAC now. Everyone purchases tons upon tons of little plastic pieces of shit and throws them in the trash. If you have a blueberry with a little bit of mold on it, now you throw away the pack. You have to fight for the right to repair your cheap plastic shit with silicon parts in it. You are expected to replace your plastic shit every 1-2 years with more plastic shit. We drink water and soda out of plastic bottles in absurd amounts. We use more electricity than ever before.

There has to be a balance somewhere. We have to have a culture shift at some point.

[wahnfrieden]

Interesting that you focus on the consumer side over the production side to blame. And what drives culture shifts?

[slothtrop]

Consumers respond to incentives. I wouldn't "blame" them either, but I would expect consumer behavior to adjust to taxes or revoking subsidies for certain goods.

If it were down to wagging a finger, yeah, that's for the birds. The only thing that serves is feeding the clickbait money machine inflaming a culture war. We already know that if some alternatives are on the market (electric vehicles, plant-based boxed crap), people will buy them. A large percentage of consumers buys plant-based products despite not being vegan or caring to be.

[wahnfrieden]

Consumer purchasing shifting toward more correct purchases isn’t a solution at all. Your examples are essentially luxury market items that don’t scale to humanity with questionable net impact

[slothtrop]

Not really. Vehicles are a large part of the Western fabric for example, and the popularity of SUVs in the recent decades have led to an uptick in emissions - therefore, disincentivizing SUVs is one option. Governments are already rolling out solutions like "greener home" grants, that offers rebates for improving insulation. If scaled across a country, lower use of AC/heating can have a significant impact on energy demands, and it was an easy program to implement. Food waste is another angle that is a no-brainer.

In the food department, legumes and whole grains are not "luxury" items, but can serve as a substitute for meat. Even omnivores (I am one) who are health-conscious tend now to make a point to include more of these in their diet, and they're cheap.

Bearing in mind that these interventions are meant for short-run downward pressure on emissions (in the West), and short-run interventions are what we need. There is low-hanging fruit still, which can be exploited without dampening quality of life and without "mandates". In the long-run it's all a moot point, between nuclear/fusion and renewables. There is also a ton of public/private investment into carbon capture, renewables, the works - but that is not moving quickly, even though this would be the most valuable.