[vouaobrasil]

It seems impossible at times... creating more green energy just reduces the demand for fossil fuels, making them cheaper for other people to use. Reducing one's impact makes space for more people...basically, more efficiency in one place is immediately counteracted by people using MORE resources.

The only solution would be for humanity to collectively agree to make fossil fuels incredibly expensive GLOBALLY...in some way or another. Whether that's through collective action or something else, I guess time will tell.

On most days, I think we are screwed.

[baggy_trough]

That's not the only solution. Another solution would be to come up with a better energy technology that's cheaper than fossil fuels.

[vouaobrasil]

That is not really a solution in itself though. As soon as it becomes cheaper, fossil fuel prices will drop due to a drop in demand for them, especially in developing countries. Moreover, more clean energy might mitigate the CO2 problem somewhat but it does not necessarily mitigate our expansion into natural habitats, an expansion that destroys them.

It is simple-minded to think that a single technological breakthrough will suddenly make the problem of climate change go away.

[baggy_trough]

A cheaper alternative energy would reduce usage of fossil fuels even if they became cheaper.

I agree that a single technological breakthrough is unlikely to solve climate change. It will require many. I am simply pointing out that it is incorrect to say that the only solution is a global cartel to make fossil fuels much more expensive.

[Pxtl]

A magical unicorn that grants wishes would be another solution.

[baggy_trough]

A magical unicorn is about as likely as convincing the world, including poor countries, to make fossil fuels more expensive on a global basis.

[Pxtl]

80 years ago vast swaths of the world sent a generation of their young people off to Europe and Asia to die for the sake of political alliances. Killing all those people was extremely expensive.

When did we become such losers?

[baggy_trough]

Trying to convince huge numbers of people to become much poorer is a task that would likely require a similar number of dead individuals.

[xethos]

> require a similar number of dead individuals.

That's fine - I'm sure we'll get them one way or another

[jahewson]

The price of oil is held artificially high by OPEC so on that front at least I think we’re ok.

[dee-bee]

"Artificially high" by a factor of maybe 3. We need to look at how to get to a factor of 100 or 1000.

Oil is much, much more valuable in the long term as a material commodity, not a fuel commodity. This can be realized if we bring down the price of power, which is happening, albeit in only part of the globe.

[vouaobrasil]

Not high enough. It needs to be extremely expensive for everyone.