[iramiller]

I’ve used the shaped orange foam 3M ear plugs extensively while riding a motorcycle. The wind noise is extremely bad for you given the duration and surprisingly high decibels.

One interesting thing I have noticed is that these plugs are extremely sensitive to being inserted correctly and despite extensive experience and good technique (which for me involves two hands, one to insert and one to pull the top of my ear for alignment) I still find the need to reinsert plugs on occasion.

Unfortunately the poor fit isn’t obvious until I am on the road at speed when the sound volume is higher than it should be. If this same situation arises in combat I can easily imagine that the higher intensity of noises would cause hearing damage far sooner and in addition it seems unlikely soldiers would call for a timeout to fix their ear plugs.

[dharmab]

I switched from the 3M plugs to Pinlock plugs for most riding. The Pinlock ones are suitable for around town, twisties and short highway runs, but allow me to hear engines, sirens, conversations, etc. They slide in easily with a little water. I still use the foamies for long road trips.

[Reubachi]

Tangential but using water (which critically is not the same as sweat) to get earplugs in regularly would cause your doctor to have an annuerism.

I'm legit interested in this because I chase constant ear infections from needing to put in earbuds/plugs right after showering for my routine/work flow.

Have you ever had an issue?

[function_seven]

I used to use water all the time to slide earplugs in, and never had any issues with ear infections. But I always had a nagging voice inside my head telling me it wasn’t a good idea.

Did I get lucky? Or maybe I’m just less susceptible to infections? I always made sure the water was clean, but I suppose if there were bacteria on the outer surface of my ear, the water would carry it inward easier than a dry fitting would?

[m00x]

It's luck, and maybe genetic thing.

Water cleanliness doesn't guarantee anything, bacteria is everywhere. Some scuba divers with the same technique get infections often, some don't (with same techniques). I got an infection on my first dive, then nothing ever again. Some get them every 6-7 dives.

[avar]

> Water cleanliness doesn't matter, bacteria is everywhere[...]

It matters a lot, I've dived extensively, and the only time I've gotten an ear infection was in Indonesia, likely polluted runoff water contributed to that.

You'll find scientific articles backing that up, i.e. infections in general go up when swimming in untreated sewage/runoff, including ear infections.

[m00x]

I miswrote that. Water cleanliness matters, but it doesn't guarantee a lack of infection.

Sorry for the confusion.

[throwaway2037]

Where in Indonesia?

[swores]

Is it worse than having a bath where your ears go under water or a shower where water splashes into ears? Isn't that something many people do daily?

[ketzo]

After a bath or shower, your ears are open to the air, and the water can evaporate.

The earplugs keep the water sealed in your inner ear for a long time where it can't dry, increasing the chance of infection.

Some people do just get more frequent ear infections than others, though, from swimming or even just daily showers/baths. That gets back to the luck/genetics thing.

[sokoloff]

Diving has total saturation and additional pressure driving the water deeper than water splashed at 1 atmosphere of absolute pressure.

Combat (or riding or flying) has longer duration of dampness than getting out of a bath/shower and going about your normal routine.

[dharmab]

It doesn't take much. I just run them under the tap and flick most of the water off. It helps form a seal and then dries off. They always come out dry.

I can see how putting them in right after a shower can be worse since you might have water collecting in your ears.

[maerF0x0]

Custom mold earplugs from a ENT or other similar vendor could be a good fit for you (pun intended)

[dharmab]

Custom mold earplugs work _too_ well for motorcycling. They block emergency vehicle sirens.

I once got chased halfway down a mountain by a cop I couldn't hear (my KTM had nearly useless factory mirrors). Cop said he was leaning against n his horn and my foamies blocked it out entirely. Somehow I didn't get a ticket...

[ArchOversight]

You can get ones with certain dB reductions instead. Those will allow you to still hear but at a lesser level.

This is great for reducing wind noise while riding, but still being able to use in-helmet comms and hearing things like sirens/honking horns.

[aidenn0]

You can also get ones that have interchangeable filters for different levels of protection (and they even make ones that are relatively "flat" across the audible band, which is great for movie theaters that have the volume too high).

[maerF0x0]

Yeah this. Let them know what you're using them for and they'll tune the NRR and frequencies for your use case.

[akvadrako]

Custom ear plugs don't have a higher decibel reduction rating than foam ones.

They are mostly used for comfort and even frequency response.

[Cthulhu_]

I've got flange-shaped earplugs for the motorcycle, they seem to be just fine. Pulling up the ear is good practice for any kind of earplug though, I presume it straightens out the ear canal or something like that, I've used it for audio earbuds as well for a long time.

If they fall out, get different ones.

My dad had custom molded ones for his job (in metalwork), but that was well after the damage was done. He had tinnitus and he's now finally budged and got himself some subtle hearing aids.

[idiotsecant]

You can do the custom-molded ones yourself now, I had some for motorcycle riding and they worked very well. Unfortunately the ambulance cut them off of me when I got in a wreck so they are toast now, but they did their job great up until then!

I used https://earfuze.com/ but I'm sure there are better ones out now.

[jsyolo]

Why not use a full head helmet with windshield?

[barrkel]

Even a quiet helmet, at speed it's like a radio tuned to static turned up to a noise level just below painful. Windshields can actually make it worse, depending on airflow - turbulent air coming over the top and around the sides of the windshield is louder than clean smooth air. Windshields do more for fatigue, weather protection and aerodynamics.

I wear hearing aids due to motorcycle-related hearing loss, and I have never worn anything less than a full helmet.

[infecto]

That just does not work unless you have bubble around your whole body and I bet even then it’s sufficiently loud.

Unless you find the perfect windscreen, most have lots of buffeting and it’s actually quite hard to dial it in perfectly.

Helmets do absolutely zero to block noises.

Edit: just to add. I think it stands. The helmet does not block any sound. It may be aero dynamic enough that it helps prevent additional wind noise but it’s not blocking sound. Ear pro all the time.

[m00x]

It depends on the helmet and speed. When I got my Arai helmet, the speed where the wind noise is troubling went from 80kmh to 130kmh.

[dharmab]

At just 30kph you are getting permanent hearing loss. https://www.noisyplanet.nidcd.nih.gov/have-you-heard/wind-no...

[m00x]

Cyclists typically don't wear full face helmets with wind deflectors.

[dharmab]

the helmet makes the wind louder. Air slaps against the shell.

[infecto]

Said it in another thread but while sure it matters, it’s generally a pretty weak argument. It’s your ears and you can decide for yourself but even if it does not sound loud, over the course of a ride it can still be high enough to slowly cause damage.

To me it’s the same kind of argument of friends who would say it’s ok to shoot shotguns without ear pro. Sure it can be done but it adds up.

[m00x]

Maybe I don't ride enough for it to be an issue, but my hearing is top notch for a 35 year old.

I got tested and I'm at 20 y old levels of sensitivity.

[infecto]

And I don’t mean this the wrong way. Your experience is anecdotal. Maybe you ride in a city and slow speeds, maybe you have a windscreen that actually does decent job of creating a bubble over you, maybe you don’t ride for extended periods of time. Too many variables to account for. For the population though, ear pro is recommended for Motorsports. I had a bike once that caused buffeting from the hand guards. It might work for you but generally does not work for many.

[dharmab]

If your Arai has the wind deflector in you are giving yourself oxygen deprivation at every stoplight. https://youtu.be/x_ej8sehs8k?si=9LtvP0TfhQzgNDVM

[m00x]

Never been an issue, and I'm susceptible to oxygen deprivation being a big guy with weak lungs.

I get dizzy in crowds, but never while riding.

[post_break]

My Shoei RF 1400 was extremely quiet. Supposedly one of the few helmets that you actually don't need ear plugs with unless you're going extremely fast.

[infecto]

I would be willing to bet the db was high enough to cause damage over enough time. It’s not just just the peaks but also the duration. I would be very surprised if generally helmets provide much if any meaningful db reduction.

[bogantech]

Full-face helmets are still very noisy at highway speeds

[dharmab]

Just 18mph of wind is enough to cause permanent hearing damage. Windshields and helmets don't block enough of the air (the rider needs some air ventilation for defogging in cold weather and cooling in hot weather.)

If you try to fully seal the helmet you cause measurable oxygen deprivation. https://youtu.be/x_ej8sehs8k?si=9LtvP0TfhQzgNDVM

[moonchrome]

If there's any airflow (and there better be for breathing and ventilation) there's wind noise at speed. You're always better off with plugs.

[idiotsecant]

You might be shocked to learn people have tried that :)

It's hard to believe the amount of road noise on most motorcycles. It's not really comparable to rolling down the window in a nice modern car with good aerodynamics.

[badpun]

Is it legal to wear earplugs while riding on public roads?

[dharmab]

Not only legal but strongly encouraged by our instructors to prevent hearing loss. There are riding specific earplugs tuned to block the wind and road noise more than sirens, horns, etc

[aidenn0]

It might surprise you to see how many states it is illegal in (IIRC it's close to half). This may even include states in which the motorcycle school instructors tell you to wear earplugs for hearing loss.

[dharmab]

That isn't the case. The majority of the states have no law and a good chunk of the others have exceptions for hearing protection. A lot of the websites online have outdated info- e.g. most websites claim CA and OH ban earplugs, when this clearly isn't the case.

[aidenn0]

The California carve-out for hearing protection states: "The plugs or molds shall be designed in a manner so as to not inhibit the wearer's ability to hear a siren or horn from an emergency vehicle or a horn from another motor vehicle."

Ohio has a carve out specifically for motorcycles; operators of vehicles cannot (I used to own an RV where the wind and road noise at freeway speeds was well above safe levels for sustained operation).

[odiroot]

In United Kingdom it's even recommend.