[paxys]

> Housing is ridiculous

There is lots of housing outside of the Bay Area and other expensive cities.

> Utilities are ridiculous

As in the rest of the country. Climate change and soaring energy costs isn't a California-specific problem. Look at the TX grid for example.

> Political issues are rampant

What does this even mean? Where in the country doesn't have "political issues"?

> Homeless and crimes everywhere

Again, there is a lot more to California outside of three square blocks in San Francisco and LA that the media is focused on.

> Owning a car or anything bigger than a bike is a hassle and full of cost and regulations.

What is the hassle other than the fact that you are paying slightly more?

> Racial and political ideologues are everywhere including in schools and they have tremendous influence. One can lose their entire livelihood if they were found to have "wrongthink" by these ideologues.

Again, this describes every inch of this country, and is in fact a lot worse in conservative and religion-dominated cities/states.

The one thing I agree with is that things are generally expensive, but then you are also getting paid more to make up for it (CA minimum wage is $15.50 for example, and it is even higher in several cities). So overall you have to decide if it makes financial sense for you vs painting a broad generalization. There is no haven for poor people in this country, and California at least has social programs.

If you want (1) cheap and (2) conservative, then the Bay Area is not the place for you, and it doesn't need to be. There are plenty of other reasons to move, like weather, social policies, jobs/career progress, access to nature, mountains/beaches/hikes/ski slopes, walkable cities, worker protections, LGBTQ rights, women's rights/healthcare, treatment of minorities, general quality of life.

[Anon_Forever]

>There is lots of housing outside of the Bay Area and other expensive cities.

And they're similarly more expensive than the majority of the US. Housing in Stockton [0] is more expensive than Houston [1].

>As in the rest of the country. Climate change and soaring energy costs isn't a California-specific problem. Look at the TX grid for example.

It most definitely is a California-specific problem. California is only bested by Hawaii for total energy prices, and is the most expensive in the continental US [2]. California also has the second highest hours of power outages.

California power is hilariously expensive compared to every Southern and Southwestern state. More than double in most cases.

[0] https://www.zillow.com/home-values/7266/stockton-ca/

[1] https://www.zillow.com/home-values/39051/houston-tx/

[2] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph...

[paxys]

There is no point comparing costs on an absolute basis. Yes California is more expensive than a lot of other states, but those states in turn are more expensive than Mexico and South/Central America, which are more expensive than parts of Asia and Africa, and so on. The point isn't to simply chase the cheapest prices, but to compare them with the purchasing power in the immediate area. Homes and utilities in California have to be affordable for Californians, not the rest of the world.

[galaxytachyon]

Is it really affordable to Californians though? Or it is affordable only to the upper class there? Not everyone is making 200-300k a year.

If you look at the median household income pre-tax, CA is 84k while TX is 67k. Not that big a difference especially when you consider TX do not have income tax while CA does. Meanwhile everything in CA is nearly double the price. Is everything really affordable to the average Californians or it only affordable to the SWE circle?

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/CA/INC110221

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/TX/INC110221

[paxys]

Pretty disingenuous to use data for one side of the argument and a subjective "everything in CA is nearly double the price" for the other. From the same table you linked, the percentage of people living in poverty in Texas (14.2%) is higher than California (12.3%). If everything really is so much more unaffordable in CA than TX, why is that?

[galaxytachyon]

Perhaps you can check the big warning sign on the page about the poverty number:

> Estimates are not comparable to other geographic levels due to methodology differences that may exist between different data sources.

Here is a better source with comparable numbers also by the bureau for 2021, same year we are talking about:

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publicatio...

Relevant numbers for states can be found on page 77.

As for the "why"...

Officially, poverty level is counted by triple the cost of food compared to income. Of course, that is now obsolete since people need more than just food. They need housing, utilities, etc. Most of those are much higher in CA than TX.

That is why the census bureau has SPM which accounts for these needs. Based on the SPM calculated by the bureau, CA has higher poverty rate than TX, 13.2% compared to 10.4%.

Using the official, i.e. the food cost only, then CA is 11% while TX is 12.9%.

Here is a nice SPM figure by states on reddit:

https://old.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/123s1k3/oc...

Up to you how you want to take it. I was wrong in saying "everything" is double the price so let me take that back. Only housing and utilities are double or more, everything else is still more expensive but perhaps not to the 200% depending on where you live or get them from.

[galaxytachyon]

Before SF, I was in Houston. I would say it is a lot better over there, except for the weather.

Housing and utilities are not ridiculous. A good 2000sqft house is 400k. PG&E is less than half CA price. The news shows you the anomaly market prices that nobody pays because everybody has fixed pricing which is about 14-15c/kWh. Homelessness and crime are basically unnoticeable. I can park my car almost anywhere and never worried about break in or theft and no I don't live in any special places. In fact the area I live in is actually in the "less safe" area. But I was there for nearly a decade and never had any issue. SF was the first city I was scared of walking outside alone or leave my car unattended.

Also, within Houston, the city kind of lean left but the state government leans right so overall, the political effects balance out. There is no such thing as "no white allowed" playdate in schools or DEI overreach like the ones I saw in SF. There is also no prosecution of LGBTQ people or minority harassment either. It is a very "live and let live" city where if you mind your own business, nobody will interfere.

On the other hand, I moved to SF and tried to stay downtown. Could not afford it after a while and felt seriously unsafe with the homelessness issues and moved to Daly City after. Things are still expensive there even when it is the "suburb". Rent is still 2k for tiny apartment. Utilities are still just as expensive. Car is now a necessity because by bus or train it takes double the time and also my work hours are not fixed, so I need to stay late sometimes. And no way in hell I am taking public transit at midnight. It is guaranteed to end in a robbery eventually.

A house is completely out of reach. I am in STEM, work for a top company in the field, at a very high skill position, and my salary after tax would never allow me to buy a house here unless I live like a student for the rest of my working life. Meanwhile, if I go back to Houston, I can have a house right now at this exact moment using just the cash I have. That is how much different it is. Accounting for taxes and the cost of living, I am living much poorer here in SF than I was in Houston. And I am sure I am not alone in this experience. It is not a coincidence that lots of people are leaving CA to go to Texas. Even the big companies agreed.

[paxys]

Serious question - SF clearly isn't the place for you, so why don't you move back to Houston?

[galaxytachyon]

Because of the job. I took this job thinking the news probably overblow the issues in SF for political reasons, just like how they overblew the issues in Texas from what I experienced there. Turn out there is more truth to it than I expected.

I will move out of CA eventually when an opportunity arrives. Doesn't have to be Houston either. I have been to different places and countries and I am fine with exploring new cultures and new places. Most of the time I found I can tolerate quite a bit unless things go to the extreme. I guess CA is too far on the extreme left for my taste.