[parker_mountain]

I have honestly given up on Windows. It has extremely strong fundamentals, but they seem determined to mine their users for money instead of investing in a platform. I find what's happening in Apple world to be dire, but at least they have been good stewards of the user. Desktop Linux has its own serious problems as well (there's a reason its at 3%~ market penetration).

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I think Apple for now, keep my usage of Apple services to a reasonable minimum, and keep an eye on what's going on in the Linux world.

[yonatan8070]

As a Linux user, both on the desktop and on my home servers, what "serious problems" does the Linux desktop have? I know it isn't perfect, are you referring to the lack software support by the likes Adobe and MS Office?

[arcanemachiner]

My Linux install does dumb shit (technical term) all the time, but I find it's a small price to pay for software that doesn't hate me.

Case in point: I just upgraded to the newish Xubuntu 23.04 the other day, and now my default sound output device changes (to the wrong one) every time I come out of sleep mode.

A small price to pay.

[gumballindie]

Kubuntu 23.04 kernel 6.4.11 here - works fine. The issue you describe may be XFCE specific.

[parker_mountain]

"Works for me" is the anthem of all linux desktop users.

[MonaroVXR]

That maybe specific to that distribution and not Linux as a whole.

[carlosjobim]

Used a Linux machine for a while when my Mac was being repaired. It's not enough for professional use, unless you're a programmer or sysadmin.

- I couldn't find a good enough e-mail client, so did what every Linux user I know do and used webmail. That means you lose speed and features.

- Dual screen support for different DPI is non-existent in most distros, and has to be hacked with xrandr scripts to work in other distros.

- Audio or Bluetooth not working

- Very messy to install software. The native "App Store" wouldn't work or connect, so had to resort to shell commands.

- Lack of suitable productivity software (which you mentioned).

As long as nobody wants to offer a complete Linux solution with hardware, operating system and productivity software, then it will continue to be like this. That's the problem with OSS, everybody wants to blame each other and nobody wants to take responsibility and deliver a complete experience to users.

[yummypaint]

People like to compare random laptops running linux against macbooks running osx or thinkpads running windows, but that isn't really fair as linux is being expected to correctly support more hardware than the commercial options.

Compare a thinkpad running windows to the same computer running linux. I have been getting an experience superior to windows on an old x220 for the better part of a decade now. Absolutely everything works perfectly out of the box.

Lack of proper ssh graphical support, wrong file path notation, constant inexcusable security fuck-ups, and a user-hostile philosophy makes windows unsuitable for serious work. It isn't capable of being left alone for more than a few days without restarting the computer it's on. What a bad joke in 2023. At my workplace people innevitably start using a vm or try to patch things over with putty, but eventually most excorcise microsoft from their work laptops and join the real world.

[carlosjobim]

The reason why I used a Linux machine while my Mac was being repaired is because I would never even consider Windows. I needed to get important work done, uninterrupted. With very minimal time to tinker with the system. Linux was a total disappointment, but at least I could get through the time while the Mac was being repaired. If something like this happens again, I'll just try to Hackintosh any machine, because you might have to tinker and hack and pull your hair as much as with Linux, but in the end you can get a decent system for non-dev work.

[salawat]

Email client:

Thunderbird

What more do you need? Mutt is good for terminal usage too.

Or are you lamenting stuff like integrated calendar and what not?

>- Very messy to install software. The native "App Store" wouldn't work or connect, so had to resort to shell commands.

Software install is A) fundamentally messy if you refuse to read what is being installed, B) nothing to complain about given that the level of friction a developer has to go through for say, bloody Mac software releases is insane. For linux, a tarball download, path update, and linker path update is generally sufficient.

>-- Lack of suitable productivity software (which you mentioned).

I have immense difficulty taking this at face value.

>That's the problem with OSS, everybody wants to blame each other and nobody wants to take responsibility and deliver a complete experience to users.

Ya know what, maybe I've gone to the dark side in that the problem there is in the expectation of the user.

Most tools arise out of "it solves a problem for me" and we share. Maybe some distro builder has the passion to integrate things... Good on them.

You will never have a great experience using a tool you refuse to become proficient in, and computers are no different in that. The most toxic thing that happened to our industry os we suddenly seem to have drawn a line between Users and developers when in reality, there is only users.

[carlosjobim]

When switching from Windows to OS X eons ago, there were no hurdles or no need to "become proficient". No diving into config files or terminal to make things work. Polished OS and software, that you could use uninterrupted from start to finish when doing professional work, without being a programmer.

I can use MacOS without knowing what a path update or a linker path is, and it can do every and any advanced thing a computer is capable of without me having to learn that. The developer having to go through hell to release software for MacOS is one person who will suffer for the benefit of thousands, instead of thousands suffering for the benefit of nobody.

Linux should come with a big sticker "Do not use if you're not a developer", because that's basically the answer to any complaint about the OS. Of course nobody is responsible, because it's OSS and just floating out there, everybody is a volounteer. But where are the people to say "Hey, let's integrate and make a great experience and test with real life users and real life work flows, and then sell it"?

I would have gladly pay for a Linux solution like that if it existed. Why is MacOS the only option for non-developers? People who make some PDFs, read and write e-mails, make invoices and graphics, make presentations and use advanced calendars. I want to do that natively on a machine and have everything integrated, like Mac does with Spotlight and such. Linux people tell me I should use web services for all that, but then there's no integration.

Since it's OSS, nobody has a right to complain, and that's fine. I just think OSS programmers could be less shy. Instead of releasing something half-assed for other devs to use, why not go the extra mile and deliver something that's complete and usable for non-devs and then charge for it? We'd gladly pay!

[MonaroVXR]

Hardware "issues" depends on the hardware being supported for that distribution, desktop environment and more.

My Realtek Ethernet doesn't work on Fedora 38, but it did work out of the box with Pop!_OS.

Mozilla Thunderbird is a good email client.

[carlosjobim]

I tried a few different distros before settling with Ubuntu. Different things would work or not work in different distros on the laptop I had. I had read good things about PopOS, but it would not install. I liked ElementaryOS and found the UI more beautiful than MacOS, but something important didn't function (I've forgotten what it was). Congrats to the developers and designers of Linux desktop environments (ElementaryOS, KDE and Gnome) for having the best looking GUIs without losing clarity and usability. They are superior to anything from Apple, Microsoft or Google. Unfortunately it seems that "the rest of Linux" hates GUIs and GUI-workflows.

[aaomidi]

There’s too many damn distros out there and it takes a bit to find exactly what to use.

I am really annoyed that Ubuntu has become synonymous with Linux because it’s one of the worst distros to act as a desktop.

Also, curse NVIDIA for effectively keeping X alive.

For some of your points, multi DPI needs Wayland. Wayland isn’t everywhere because of NVIDIA.

Audio not working is a really odd one. Not sure what the cause of that is.

Flatpak works with the gnome software store. So that has reduced the entry barrier.

At this point I recommend EndeavourOS if you want a more traditional Linux experience and fedora silverblue if you want it to “just work, but that’s limited to Intel and AMD GPUs.

[rd07]

Your 3rd and 4th point makes me wonder about your hardware as well as the distro and desktop environment you use to have that kind of experience. My recipe for trouble-less Linux installation is to use hardware that has well-known compatibility with Linux (Thinkpad for me), as well as a popular distro and desktop environment (Manjaro+KDE or more recently EndeavourOS+Gnome for me).

[tempaccount1234]

Driver support. For example on Ubuntu I can’t use touch gestures on my touch screen and can’t assign all keyboard keys. Ok, not everyone uses a Japanese laptop with a European windows, but that works pretty well…