[naikrovek]

is it a dark pattern if it clearly asks you to do something, and doesn't lie or deceive you about what it's going to do if you accept or decline?

(no, it isn't a dark pattern if it isn't lying or tricking you into making a decision you would not make otherwise. this particular behavior isn't defensible behavior, and it isn't an example of a dark pattern, either.)

is this how languages evolve so fast? people using words and terms without understanding them in full view of people who don't know the term, who then learn the incorrect definition?

[plaguepilled]

Even in your framing (which I don't accept) it is a dark pattern because it constructs a bias of user behaviour that, statistically, will push users towards something that is both good for the company and not reflective of the user's goals. This IS a trick, because it relies on the user not knowing those incentives to be effective.

[ipaddr]

It is a dark pattern to ask the user to switch defaults to a product randomly presenting an action button which tricks the user into clicking something they have no desire to change.

It's desktop spam. Like receiving an email trying to get you to click a link and install malware.

[soulofmischief]

Or maybe people decide to expand their own definition of a word, which everyone is allowed to do, and we eventually come to a consensus? Try to be a little less cynical.

[naikrovek]

I'm cynical because I've seen SO MANY terms quickly change, only to be told by people who are younger than my career that my use of a term is incorrect.

I'm cynical because I've been forced to be.

"copypasta" used to mean that a programs source code was copied from many places and hastily wired up so it all works without any cleanup or untangling of unnecessary bits of code, like casts from uint16 to uint32 so that one copied method could be used, then a cast back to uint16 so another copied method could be used, then a cast to uint32 again so that the ultimate result could be used.

could those types have been changed in the methods so that the casts weren't needed? you bet. but it is a hastily assembled Frankenstein's monster that lives and breathes but that gives you nightmares when you look at the source code again in 1 weeks time.

today, "copypasta" is often used to mean "I copied a single method from another project, used it, and now my program is legit copypasta, lol."

I'm just tired of people using words and technical terms without understanding them. I know that it's a reality of spoken languages, but I don't have to like it.

[soulofmischief]

You do realize that there is a plethora of words in the English language which have multiple distinct meanings?

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/english-w...

No one forced you to be bitter about evolving language. We live in a hyperconnected era where language is evolving faster than ever, so you'll need to calibrate if you don't want to spend every minute seething.

[esperent]

> told by people who are younger than my career that my use of a term is incorrect

Being old doesn't make you wise, or right.

It's nonsense to demand that meaning of words will never change, because change over time is just how language works.

That's how we got from Chaucer, to Shakespeare, to modern English. The changes do happen fast enough to be noticeable in a single lifetime.

As you grow older, it's important to track these changes. You don't have to agree with them or like them. But sometimes you might have to accept the new meanings anyway.

[naikrovek]

> Being old doesn't make you wise, or right.

are you serious?

being old doesn't inherently make you know things, no, and that is absolutely not what I was saying.

I was around when the term was coined and I used it in conversation with others. After that the people who argue with me today tell me that my use of the term then was wrong were born.

Wikipedia is wrong about the origins of this term; I was using it in 1998 in the #slashdot IRC channel, and that's where I was introduced to the term.

why in the hell do you think I was saying that age alone grants knowledge? that is a leap greater than I've seen in a long time.

[soulofmischief]

No one is saying your definition is incorrect. You are saying another group's definition is incorrect.

[intvocoder]

It’s maybe a stretch to call 4chan speak like “copypasta” a technical term.

[naikrovek]

technical term or not, it has meaning.

an easier to understand example, then: "literally" - "in effect; in substance; very nearly; virtually: 'I literally died when she walked out on stage in that costume.'"

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/literally

"literally" now literally means "figuratively" because of the phenomenon I'm talking about.

[darepublic]

It's a dark pattern to constantly solicit the user the same offer with no option to turn it off. Ie my windows machine constantly suggesting I switch to windows 11, using vaguer language than normal so that I may accidentally select yes, and having no opt out option so I may eventually concide out of exhaustion rather than real consent

[naikrovek]

it's an anti-pattern. It isn't a dark pattern.

dark patterns lie to you, attempt to deceive you. anti-patterns are just annoying without lying.

you guys want to attack Microsoft so bad you've forgotten what terms mean.