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by halifaxbeard 1028 days ago
I wonder how long until Hashicorp starts to use OpenTF as the upstream for TFE
4 comments

I don't think there is a future for TFE in the face of OpenTF. It's a dumb Terraform runner, the competition has far more features and integrations with other tools. The BSL was HashiCorps way to curtail competitors and it has backfired spectacularly.
Ohad co-founder of env0 here, early supporter in the OpenTF initiative. TFE and TFC have a future. Competition is good for everybody. It forces innovation. However, only OpenTF will make sure to properly differentiate between the OSS layer and the commercial layer.
The competition is between real platform engineering tools like yours, spacelift, humanitec, morpheus, etc. Real innovation, not just running TF plan/apply.
To be fair, competition from us (Spacelift) and our other competitor friends had an extremely positive impact on TFC/TFE over the last two year or so.
Right, suddenly someone's doing the work for them and for "free".
It’s a traumatic birth for sure- but I think in the long run Hashicorp took the right approach. There’s already more FTE commitments from the community than Hashicorp actually had working on it.
Marcin here, co-founder of Spacelift, one of the members of the OpenTF initiative

I'm not sure. They voluntarily exchanged the throne of a benevolent ruler for an audience seat where they're one of many. I would personally think that this privileged position was worth more than the cost of the FTEs devoted to the project. But obviously I don't see the whole picture.

Its certainly going to be interesting to watch how it all plays out.
How did Hashicorp "take the right approach"? They wanted $$money$$, they didn't want Terraform to be bigger or better or to cede control of it to anyone else.

Having seen Spacelift, Pulumi, etc. over the last few years, I have little trouble envisioning them jumping to help with some alacrity if a Hashicorp that did want improvements did the work to move it to a software foundation themselves. But again: $$money$$.

100%. At Spacelift we have no beef with HashiCorp, and on a personal level many of us (me being the chief fanboy) admire their earlier work. We reached out to try and work together but the answer was a clear "no".
> They wanted $$money$$

Did this forum forget why for-profit companies exist recently?

There is a difference between "making money" and "capturing the entire thing because our growth-addled brains cannot conceive of not allocating all of the money to us".

If you fire on the ecosystem, sometimes (not often enough, but sometimes) the ecosystem fires back.

All of the money? They've given it away for years, and they're just losing too much money.

Now one or two other companies can take all that, pay for one or two engineers and look like the good guys.

> There is a difference between "making money" and "capturing the entire thing because our growth-addled brains cannot conceive of not allocating all of the money to us".

Trying to capture the entire thing, in a way that backfires and gets them a smaller piece of the pie. Which is, incidentally, and answer to the question: A business might be obligated to act in its own interest, but this is the kind of thing that can result in worse financial outcomes, not better.

> There is a difference between "making money" and "capturing the entire thing because our growth-addled brains cannot conceive of not allocating all of the money to us".

I feel like this post suggests a misunderstanding about how publicly traded, for profit companies work. Because it is literally their job to capture the entire thing and whatever else they can capture. That's why going public is not awesome for FOSS-oriented companies. We've been here before.

When I read '$$money$$' I picture a cartoon character who starts excitedly staring at something with dollar signs in their eyeballs before embarking on some harebrained scheme.

I don't think it's supposed to indicate that profit seeking is somehow bad or unnatural for companies to pursue, but that Hashicorp got caught up in something foolish and shortsighted because of some excessive eagerness and carelessness.

Kind of like Hashicorp has done so far for everyone non-corporate.
Marcin here, co-founder of Spacelift, one of the members of the OpenTF initiative

As a long-term HashiCorp fanboy, and a true fan of the work of Mitchell this would be my dream come true, on a very personal level. It would also be a great day for the entire community.

Can they do that without reverting their own license back to MPL?