[Tactician_mark]

Decoupling? You want to eliminate trade between the world's two biggest economies?

This feels like economic policy from the 18th century. The decline of mercantilism and expansion of free trade ushered in modern global prosperity. Tariffs, protectionism, and trade wars still exist, but nothing like what you're suggesting. It's not just China's economy that would be affected - the developed world lives on cheap foreign goods, and any politician that suggests sacrificing that much quality of life for "security" wouldn't last long.

[FirmwareBurner]

>the developed world lives on cheap foreign goods, and any politician that suggests sacrificing that much quality of life for "security" wouldn't last long

The majority of the world consider their quality of life depend on stuff like jobs, housing, healthcare and childcare, not having cheap e-waste.

Sure, it's nice that now I can afford to watch 4k movies beamed wirelessly to my phone which is a powerful computer in my palm, while I'm on the toilet in my tiny apartament, but I'd rather be able to afford a bigger apartment and be contempt with older shiny tech.

I'm not against free trade between nations, I'm against imbalanced free trade. We're trading with partners who are on the opposite spectrum of labor laws, environmental laws, etc,. making local workers/companies unable to compete in the race to the bottom, costing a lot of working class jobs and environmental damage be x10 except not in our back yard.

[OfSanguineFire]

Why do you assume the Chinese goods on which the West is currently dependant are "e-waste"? This goes far beyond electronics. Walk into any supermarket in the world, and most non-food products -- from toothbrushes to the cheapest cooking utensils -- are made in China.

[FirmwareBurner]

>most non-food products -- from toothbrushes to the cheapest cooking utensils -- are made in China

They don't have to be. Speaking of toothbrushes, a lot of cheap stuff can be made in the west. For example my local DM (European version of CVS/Wallgreens) is full of toothbrushes made in Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, and one time I even got an US made Oral-B which I loved but can't find anymore, all costing not significantly more than the toothbrushes made in China.

Plenty of cheap stuff in my house is made in the west as well: my plastic garbage can is made in Switzerland, my plastic AeroPress and its paper filters are all made in the US, the list could go on.

Till the early 00's I could buy Blackberries, Siemens, Nokia and Ericsson phones made in their respective home countries, while not costing more than Chinese made flagship phones cost today adjusted for inflation and purchasing power.

The mass offshoring of manufacturing to China mostly benefits the shareholders as they can pocket the savings since obviously they aren't passing them down to the consumer if Chinese made goods cost nearly as much as those made in wealthy developed countries.

I'm not against free trade, but tariffs should have been left in palce to level the playing field and tariffs only would have hurt corporates profits and executive compensation, not working class prosperity which was at an all-time high before the mass offshoring of jobs.

[OfSanguineFire]

I said supermarkets. Chains like DM and Rossmann are already a step up in price and quality beyond where struggling people do their shopping. A toothbrush from such a shop (whether made locally or in China) is usually going to be more expensive than a toothbrush from a supermarket (which is likely made in China).

Disruption to trade with China would affect prices in proletarian supermarkets in the short-term, which would be a huge problem when millions of Europeans (and their counterparts in other Western countries) are already complaining of inflation.

You write of having been able to buy European electronics at competitive prices, but that was long ago and Europe has already lost the whole production landscape that enabled such quality at competitive prices.

[FirmwareBurner]

>beyond where struggling people do their shopping

The struggling people who are struggling because their working class jobs were offshored and instead must find consolation in being able to only afford dirt cheap Chinese-made stuff? The irony is not lost on me.

Plus, most of peoples' biggest current expenses are education, housing and healthcare, not that a toothbrush costs $1.99 and not $0.99.

>Disruption to trade with China would affect prices in proletarian supermarkets in the short-term

"Oh look, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions".

Sure, now a trade disruption would suck, but my point was that we could have kept developing industrial capacity and jobs in the west and it wouldn't be this way if we haven't offshored so much manufacturing to China so quickly in the first place, chasing short term profits at the expense of everything else, especially since none of those profits went to the working class who's jobs were gone.

Other cheap stuff in the supermarket, like bananas, is basically tied to slave labor in those countries, but I can live without cheap bananas and not support slave labor.

[OfSanguineFire]

> Plus, most of peoples' biggest current expenses are education, housing and healthcare, not that a toothbrush costs $1.99 and not $0.99.

If you think that, you are looking at things from an elite perspective. You might want to look at any national subreddit in the last couple of years and read some threads about inflation and how people are feeling the squeeze and having to deny themselves all kinds of ordinary things. As I said, this is not just toothbrushes, that was a mere example, it is almost every non-food product a person would have to buy.

[lm28469]

> ushered in modern global prosperity.

Until shit hits the fan, then it's a free for all

https://www.rfi.fr/en/europe/20200402-china-coronavirus-face...