[atomicnature]

My personal philosophy is: "Increase capabilities". I consider Stress as an indicator of skill/resource deficits (not always).

I find "sticking to the process" to be most important characteristic in increasing capabilities.

The gym analogy is appropriate here. If I stop working out because I can't manage a particular weight, then I become weaker overtime (or stagnate at best). But if I persist despite the initial pressures, even if imperfectly, then eventually I become capable of handling the extra weight.

Man needs an arena to struggle, to overcome; without that a human being cannot fully develop oneself.

[wruza]

In my case it lead to secretly accumulating anxiety until it blew up in my face after 35. I believe OP is similar.

Sticking to the process of struggle has its own benefits, but it also may make you wake up one day and realize it was 10 years of struggling nowhere while everyone around enjoyed life and achieved at least the same. Worst case is when you’re 50+ at that realization.

Maybe gym is not a good target for my criticism, as it changes the chemistry in a positive way. But I doubt that psychological struggle does any good, unless you’re regularly seeing a therapist or have a great self-reflection ability.

[atomicnature]

Why don't we see "psychological struggle" (or stress) as an indicator of skill/resource deficit?

Whenever there is struggle, we notice our own deficiencies. The point is not to continue with the same struggle forever, but to graduate into more sophisticated struggles - just like we graduate into higher grades in school.

That was my overall message. That we have to continually solve the problems. And there's never an end to the process..

Another perspective: The 1st grader is stressed by 1st grade problems, but the 10th grader is not stressed by 1st grade problems. This clearly demonstrates stress is related to capability. And also provides hope that through effort and time, one can graduate to higher levels.

[wruza]

Speaking for myself, I just didn’t know how minds work. Iow, I didn’t see it and there was no good source suggested by anyone to learn from. Ironically, the solution to job-related anxiety turned out to be somewhat incompatible with “having a job” (in a sense I always had of it, not in general).

You’re right from the general point of view, from overlook. The thing I’d add is that self-development may and often is completely out of your scope, according to my observations at least. It’s akin to a businessman asking poor what the hell they’re struggling with when the world is full of opportunities. Well, they look and can’t see it. They struggle in a wrong direction (added:) and it consumes all their attention.

[atomicnature]

Re: self-development

One of my observations in HN, and in most places I have been to is a strong preference for "comfort-orientation". People simply dislike when I propose that - taking on a challenge, working on a problem in a persistent/consistent way is needed, and that there is a price to pay. I feel the problem is truly at the philosophical level of their minds (not at a practical level). Therefore, instead of "self-development", I'm performing the "assumption-destroying" job here. It is an unpleasant affair overall, but I'm simply interested in the psychology & dynamics of the phenomenon.

The people who get into trouble usually buy the assumption that there is a formulaic solution, where they don't have to pay some serious price to get a real solution. They want something that takes less time, takes very little effort, and still delivers great benefits. I tend to emphasize "challenge-orientation" to counter this inherent bias I've seen in people. Ultimately, I challenge people at this level in the hopes that my strong emphasis on "challenge-orientation" does them some good in the long run :)

PS: You can see my comment history and notice, whenever I bring up the "challenge-orientation" idea, there is, almost without exception, at least one person seriously upset that a significant price may have to be paid to solve significant problems.

[gardenhedge]

That's a dangerous philosophy

[atomicnature]

Why so?

Who become the best engineers? Those who struggle the most with engineering issues.

Who become the best musicians? Those who struggle the most to refine their skills with their instruments, etc.

Who become the best scientists? Those who struggle the most with the theories/problems at hand.

What's the danger? I'd argue living with lower capabilities is more dangerous than otherwise; it's even less fulfilling to live with limited skills/resources.

[gardenhedge]

Because 1) it's incorrect which you admit. 2) It can lead to mistreating Stress

I disagree with all those points. The ones who struggle the most likely fail.

[atomicnature]

You're just making an assertion that my claim is incorrect. Practical experience shows - consistent effort does indeed deliver results, and leads to improvement in capability (by and large - as pointed in my original answer). For example, the whole education effort of 14-15 years is full of painful experiences, getting wrong answers in math, flunking in laboratories, etc. There is stress involved during the examination. If I simply avoid the exams citing stress, how'd I ever become capable?

Therefore, I don't see how you could be correct on this.

[gardenhedge]

Practical experience shows - consistent effort does indeed deliver results => agreed

leads to improvement in capability => agreed

but the assertion that those who struggle the most become the best is not proven - and I disagree with it.

"Stress as an indicator of skill/resource deficits" is also not proven

[atomicnature]

Well, life is not mathematics, so you don't "prove" things in these life matters; one simply accumulates more corroboration that particular type of mental orientation is profitable (or otherwise).

I can cite at least 20+ extremely accomplished individuals (widely acknowledged to be so) in dealing with complex fields and matters touting the virtue/power of struggling with a problem. The struggle opens up pathsways to the human being.

I'd end this with one important sentence: "There is no royal road to geometry". I believe the same mentality extends to many other aspects of life too.

PS: Even at a personal level, the greatest pleasures in life for me are some sorts of "self-mastery" - taming the beast - that is the human mechanism. And these "internal results" are obtained through great price, time and effort.