[jacquesm]

This is one thing that always got me about the United States: people will ask you how you are doing, but they don't actually mean it, it's just a required pre-amble, a bit like the tones a modem uses to sync up with the other end.

If he did it in a way that he actually genuinely wanted to know the answer that alone would set him apart in a very distinctive way. Most people really don't want to know the answer, but they'll still ask the question.

[iflint]

As an American, I view it as an option to start a light conversation. You can decline the option with a simple "Good, thanks", or you can genuinely answer with a light comment and see if the other person reciprocates. Answering with a particularly serious topic will likely catch the other person off guard, so people avoid that, but to say Americans don't actually mean it when they ask how are you misses some of the nuance of the situation.

There are important contextual and regional difference that apply too. You're more likely to get a genuine reply in a place like the rural Midwest than you are in NYC. You also are more likely to get a genuine reply from a person relaxing at a bar than the cashier at a fast food drive through window. There are many people who will take the question as an invitation to talk if the situation is right.

[kibwen]

In linguistics these are called "phatic expressions", and are far from unique to American English. Similar to idioms, phatic expressions don't have the literal meaning implied by their component words and instead serve a social purpose (in this case, serving to signify the beginning of a communication protocol). In British English the analogous phrase would be "you alright?"

https://youtube.com/watch?v=eGnH0KAXhCw

[jacquesm]

Interesting: so this is one of those things where my ESL background is shining through. I'm sure if I introspect on Dutch I'll find equivalents that I might be using myself which when literally translated to English would upset an English or American counterpart in the same way. Never thought of this. And I didn't know the term Phatic Expression.

Thank you for posting this and the video link.

[smodo]

There is a perfect equivalent in ‘hoe is het?’ or ‘alles goed?’ Those are mostly used as a syn/ack-phrase so to speak.

[gattilorenz]

“Graag gedaan” (“you’re welcome”, “my pleasure”, but more lit. “I did it with pleasure”) can be dropped quite casually, right?

[jacquesm]

Yes, but it actually does have meaning, and it is appreciated for that meaning rather than ignored.

Conversely:Americans probably think I'm rude because I don't first ask them how they are but start the actual conversation without pre-amble.

[lotsofpulp]

I would find it normal if you started a conversation after a simple “hi” or “hello”, and I think many other Americans would agree.

[gattilorenz]

“How are you doing?” also has a meaning, and sometimes is used in “the deeper sense”, i.e. the literal one.

Graag gedaan is also something you say to be polite, not only when it really was your pleasure to do it, so it could qualify as a phatic expression - I don’t think anyone on the other side thinks “oh well, that person surely cares about me: it’s a pleasure doing something for me!”.

[dylan604]

I find it curious/interesting on how you don't notice your own versions of these from just being immersed in the language. It's not until noticing these in other languages/dialects that I really paid attention. UK English's "Watcha" and "innit" (if that's even how they spell them) are some of my favorites

[jtr1]

Speaking for myself, the question is always fairly routine but sometimes people answer genuinely. In almost all those cases I really do care, but the register of the conversation usually only shifts after it’s apparent that the person is looking for more than a routine conversation

[scruple]

I think it's less that people don't actually want to know than it is that people don't actually want to share. But I'm from the Midwest, originally, and that's just kind of how we are.

Expanding on this just a little bit... I think that, in the Midwest but I'm sure in many other distinct American cultural regions, there's a sort of shared, but subdued, understanding that each of us is uniquely going through some shit. We answer the way we do because we don't want to trouble others with said shit.

[jasonladuke0311]

https://twitter.com/midwestern_ope/status/122834785331730022...

[scruple]

My default response is, "Oh, you know." I never know if I mean it as a statement or a question. Send help.

[Waterluvian]

That reminds me of Tig Notaro's incredible stand-up set when she found out she had cancer:

"I have cancer, how are you?" "Is everyone having a good time? I have cancer."

It's a masterpiece, in my opinion. Tig finds an intensely awkward situation with an audience that showed up for comedy, and just presses on it relentlessly. I really hope that when it's my turn, I can handle it like her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXk1DSbXsZk

[jacquesm]

That's very powerful, in the beginning the audience is totally unable to calibrate their responses but it gets better over time. Props to her, her tone and delivery are absolutely perfect, aiming straight for the heart.

[landemva]

> I really hope that when it's my turn

I watched mother-in-law go through the expensive and painful burn/cut/poison and hospice with two morphine patches. On flight home I determined I was going to learn about it and find a different course than what was offered by the medical establishment. The book World Without Cancer helped start my journey. It's not just random bad luck, so take action.

[NegativeK]

Some cancers are treatable; some aren't. Delaying treatment for the first and giving false hope to the latter by advocating treatments that have _never_ been effective is actually harmful.

That book has nothing to do with improving actual human health.

[xeonmc]

Reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CMZjXHhMR0 (first Canadian PSA)

[gglitch]

Do you shake hands? No one in my life shakes hands anymore. "Hi, how are you," is no more rational, but at least it's more hygienic. As polite social conventions go, I'd call it pretty harmless. Sort of miss the handshakes though.

Edit: FWIW, I often ask people how they are, and while I hope and am delighted to hear how people are, you're right, objectively, I think it's really more just sort of a default template that invites any kind of response vaguely correlating with one's status. But, "Hi, I invite you to tell me anything on your mind that might correlate with how you or the world are, or anything else; I'm just being social," is a bit clumsy.

[phist_mcgee]

I still handshake new people that I meet who I know I may meet again. Neighbours, tradesmen, new coworkers etc. It's a sign of respect and openness where i'm from.

COVID was really weird because I knew that on meeting someone I would, and I knew they would normally shake as a greeting, but instead we would stand around hands awkwardly at our sides.

[dylan604]

>people will ask you how you are doing, but they don't actually mean it,

it is common to hear a reply as "oh, you know" an an equally un-engaged response. i remember the first time an uncle responed "well, no, I don't. that's why I asked." i had never realized how i had become desensitized to the question that i gave an equally meaningless response. so now, if it's a stranger, it's just a simple "doing good" or "just fine" followed by a "thanks". if it's someone i am familiar with like family or friend, but not coworkers, then i might stop to provide a more truthful response

[tristor]

FWIW, I'm American but well-traveled/encultured, and I work a lot with people in other parts of the world. I ask this question, and I use it as an opportunity for the other person to set the tone of the conversation. I actually find it pretty refreshing when I get a blunt and meaningful answer in response, it's one reason I love working with Dutch and German engineers, because they will give a real answer and not be so concerned as to how it may be perceived.

I think it's exactly a bit like a modem preamble, but it's an opportunity to create a conversation and give both people in the conversation a chance to set the tone. It can really be used to genuinely find out the answer to the question, but a lot of people don't want to share their personal challenges with strangers, coworkers, or even acquaintances. You may not enough know exactly what level of intimacy is included in your relationship with another person or whether you are at the point to move to that next level, this simple question gives them the opportunity to either dive into something that's very personal or to keep it light-hearted and move along.

It's not a throwaway, it's a respectful way to start a conversation that gives the other person agency in setting the tone.

[fnordpiglet]

It’s really person dependent. I really mean it, and a lot of folks do. Additionally if you said “not good,” most people will be caught off guard but pivot into sympathy and asking what’s wrong etc. It’s a perfectly acceptable answer. A key thing though is to make sure it’s appropriate to the moment. If my boss asks me how I’m doing I’ll tell them if it’s not good in some way related to work or my performance (I.e., “not good, I can’t get this to compile” or “not good, my mom died I need to take time off,” or even, “not good, I didn’t sleep well last night.”) for friends the “not good” can be deeper, and for family it’s pretty open. For strangers, I still might say “not good” if something particularly acute is happening (“not good, my mom just died,” “not good, I just got out of the hospital this morning.”) I’ve never had someone get uppity about a “not good” response, and have always had an appropriate pivot to sympathy and a refocus on the question.

As such, I’ve always found it odd people narrow in on the “how are you” question being perfunctory and people don’t genuinely care. They routinely ask it and generally expect “good thanks” but react appropriately to other answers.

[foobarian]

Isn't it just how speech works? There are examples of this probably in any culture. It would actually be odd to respond to the question as asked instead of the expected ACK; you'd get something like this classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhEYXcCB1Qw

[vidarh]

The first time I experienced it, I was dumbfounded when someone asked "How are you?" and then just kept walking past. It took me a while to accept certain questions like this have become greetings and often aren't actually intended as questions.

[frandroid]

I mean it's not generally accepted to say "I'm dying of cancer, you?" but it's a good jumping point for lighter conversation, which is healthier than not having the interaction at all.

[JohnFen]

> This is one thing that always got me about the United States: people will ask you how you are doing, but they don't actually mean it

Yes, we use it like "hello" -- but not always. Sometimes we mean it.

Since this use of "How are you?" trips up people from other nations so much, I've tried to be more aware of this. My compromise is that when I mean it as a greeting rather than a query, I'll say "Howzitgoing" like a single word. If I mean it as a query, I'll look the person in the eye and ask "How are you doing?"

[zo1]

The entire world probably has the equivalent of "how are you" in every which language available. Not sure where you're going with this "take" on American culture.

[com]

Some cultures ask “have you eaten?” and I like that. A lot.

[jacquesm]

Yes, I've heard 'have you had rice today?' and that gave me a similar feeling. It inquires about health, hunger, affluence and is an open invitation to share some food all at once.

[necovek]

My English lessons from when I was a kid 30+ years ago spring to mind too: "how do you do?"

Still, other languages do that too: que tal (Spanish), šta ima (Serbian), wie gehts (German),...

[bovermyer]

This depends on the region of the United States and the context.

"How's it going?" can be either a throwaway acknowledgment, or it can be a light opener to a longer conversation.

[dools]

Fun fact: I recently learned that in Fiji they ask "where are you going?" instead of "how are you doing?". They have a "how are you doing" greeting as well, but passing someone in the street you would say "where are you going?" to which there can be both generic and specific responses. I'm not sure if they're any more or less interested in the response but I just found it interesting.

[modeless]

Off topic: this comment subthread is collapsed by default on page load. I haven't seen this before, is it a new type of mod action?

[xwdv]

The problem is in the United States, most people don’t really know how they are doing.

I don’t know how I’m doing right now. If you asked me you wouldn’t get much of an answer. I might say I’m doing just fine to end the conversation.

But what is there to really say? We are simply going about this world trying to survive, trying to not get shot, trying to make so much money so that we never befall the fate of those who have been damned to a life of poverty. And all the time, a war wages for the control of our minds, and our privacy and free agency threatened at every opportunity. Big corporations and lobbyists want to hold us down, keep us in offices toiling away so princely investors can prop up their commercial real estate empires and ensure the working rich never get a chance to break free of their chains and embrace their own financial independence, because that would mean they become uncontrollable, a threat to those in power whose primary tool of coercion is money. The climate is falling apart and it makes little sense to have even one child, assuming you could even find a partner unsullied by the toxic dating culture that has been brewed by impossible standards hoisted upon us by social medias. I had to step over two homeless bums overdosing on the sidewalk this morning, victims of a drug epidemic that goes quietly unnoticed, swept under the rug as an inconvenient truth. It is clear the best days of this nation are far behind it. The future is perilously dark and uncertain.

How am I really doing? Don’t know. I don’t try to think about it.

[SirMaster]

I can't tell if this is serious or a joke.

I'd hate to have your so pessimistic and negative view of the world though.

I don't think most people are viewing things this way (i.e. makes little sense to have one child). Plenty of people are having children and families and enjoying life.

If this isn't a joke, it seems you might need some help as there's no way that's a normal way to feel, at least in my experience.

[matheusmoreira]

It's not a joke. I feel exactly the same way as grandparent. The more you learn about the world and its workings, the more unhappy you become. It's a hopeless feeling. Like civilization has already peaked before I was even born. I can see where the world's going and I don't like it but can't change it.

I'd say it's the people who don't feel this way who need help but on second thought I wouldn't wish these feelings on anyone.

[xwdv]

Hang in there brother.

[xwdv]

HN is not a place for jokes.

[AlbertCory]

> The problem

there is no problem. It's a friendly greeting. Sorry your life is such a bummer.

Try saying, "Great, and you?" even if you don't mean it at all. You get back what you give out.

Edit: you can also say, "Shitty. It sucks to be me." That might even be honest, judging from the responses.

[jacquesm]

> Try saying, "Great, and you?" even if you don't mean it at all. You get back what you give out.

Yes, that is exactly the problem. It invites fake responses and real responses are not appreciated at all. It's just noise.

[AlbertCory]

as I said: there is no problem. You prefer to live in a private hell, and there are lots of ways to signal that non-verbally.

[jacquesm]

> You prefer to live in a private hell

Sorry? Are you a mind reader or something?

[AlbertCory]

a mind reader? no, it's fairly clear in your writing.

[xwdv]

Private hell or public hell, you’re still in hell.

[the_only_law]

> Try saying, "Great, and you?" even if you don't mean it at all.

Nothing I hate more than a liar.

[AlbertCory]

Try going without lying for a week. I think there are even movies about that.

[matheusmoreira]

https://imdb.com/title/tt0119528/

> Was it good for you?

> I've had better.

[chmod600]

I treat "how are you" as an opening for a quick update if there's something to say (e.g. "it was Billie's first day of school today"), or a chance to set up a deeper discussion later (e.g. "oh man, long story, let's catch up later").

[wellthisisgreat]

it's a good culture tbh, gives you a chance to avoid the interaction if you don't feel like it, or get into it if you want to have a chat.

- How are you doing? - How are you doing?

- How are you doing? - Well, you know, yesterday..

both are equally socially acceptable