[ajuc]

When lobbyists in Germany advocated for increased cooperation with Russia and against letting Ukraine into NATO because "we Germans have a moral debt towards Russians" - it seems ethical, humble, self-depreciating and anti-imperialistic.

But it was the exact opposite in reality. Notice how Germans hadn't said the same about other eastern european nations before 2022. Despite the fact that other nations were hit just as hard if not harder by Germany in WW2, and unlike Russians - didn't started the WW2 as allies of hitler.

Somehow the debt only applied to the authoritarian militaristic country that has lots of gas, not to its victims.

The historical self-depreciating rhetoric of some pro-russian Germans was used to justify siding with the bully against the victim because it's more profitable and historically it was the "realpolitik" choice.

Yes, imperialism is bad. But sucking up to imperialist regimes just because they aren't your own country isn't the answer. WTF people.

[fsloth]

There’s the historical pattern of German imperialism as well, where the sovereignty of peoples and lands between Germany and Russia does not exist. The historical smell is not good. “There is nothing of concern east of Germany except Russia”. Hence CCE countries joined the NATO as soon as they could.

[giraffe_lady]

A careful reread of my comment will show that I don't endorse "sucking up to imperialist regimes" of any kind. I am responding to the idea that it is somehow foolish or immoral to respond to your own country's imperialism even in light of the imperialism of other countries.

The point you're making seems good I just don't know why you're trying to make it to me is all.