[mindslight]

> You have to prosecute and pursue justice after the crime/s, not before. Justice is rarely a fast event

While I'm sympathetic to your comment in isolation, do you think there is any chance that after the slow wheels of justice do turn, these violent thugs and their facilitators are actually going to end up in prison for armed assault, robbery, kidnapping, criminal conspiracy, etc? This is the breakdown in the rule of law that people are outraged about, regardless of the somewhat unreasonable desire that justice should happen quicker. If justice were merely slow but still dependable, people wouldn't be nearly as outraged.

Also if there were a consistent pattern of rogue law enforcement employees getting designated as having acted outside of their state-granted authority, prosecuted as regular criminals, and going to prison, this particular incident would have been less likely to happen in the first place. So given the larger context it's a bit specious to say we just need to give the situation time, when time mostly serves to make the widespread attention fade.

[sanderjd]

They are going to end up in prison for different crimes than those ones. (Although "criminal conspiracy" will show up in there somewhere, probably.) I don't think the specific crimes are really the point here...

This is not a demonstration of the breakdown of the rule of law, until the law actually fails to act on it. And I think that's incredibly unlikely at this point. But maybe the justice system will indeed fail to act on this, and then we should have this conversation and you'll probably find I agree with you.

But it's impossible for the justice system to have acted on this yet.

It's good to be outraged; our outrage is why this will be acted upon, so we must maintain that. But it's, frankly, dumb, to jump to this "the entire system is broken because these people are still walking free after a non-zero number of days!". That's just not how it works!

[mindslight]

Sure, in this specific case nothing has happened yet that implies the rule of law has entirely broken down. The real problem driving the national outrage is the long pattern of the justice system not sufficiently binding government employees to the law. If this violent gang was not also employed as police officers, then we'd expect arrests and charges within a week or so. So that's around when we can say that the justice system will start to diverge based on the perps being in a different class.

And actually I'd say this substitution of different crimes is definitely part of the problem. Having a parallel set of laws that apply to government employees is still preserving this notion of a two class justice system where cops are immune from regular laws. If anything, the perps should be charged with both the various color of law framings for the damage to their institutions and for the straightforward crimes of their personal actions outside of their lawful employment duties.

[sanderjd]

Ok but it's ridiculous that most of the comments here are like "this just goes to show that this country is corrupt!" and like, no, it doesn't!

Fine, you want to have a broader discussion, that's your prerogative. But it's just not true that the current facts of this case are evidence for anything going wrong in US society. That doesn't mean nothing is! I'm honestly not interested in having that broader nuanced discussion in this forum. But I am interested in pointing out nonsense when I see it, and using this case in its current state as evidence of any kind of break-down in the rule of law is just that: nonsense.

Edit to engage directly more:

This is not the same as a mob raiding a newspaper, because law enforcement is, for good reason, given the benefit of the doubt. Especially when they actually do involve the courts by getting a warrant. This makes it worse than a mob when they act corruptly, and especially when the courts also acted corruptly. It's worse, but in ways that make it slower to investigate. The criminality of a regular mob is clear, while the criminality of a law enforcement agency with the support of a judge is unclear. Whereas it would not be hasty to arrest all the members of the mob in a couple days, it would be hasty to arrest all the police officers and a judge prior to figuring out the full story, which takes time.

So no, the system has not failed if it takes more than a week to see arrests. It will likely take more like 6 months to a year. And yep, I would absolutely like complex investigations to go way faster, but it's not unusual or evidence of corruption when they take months or years, it's the normal state.

[mindslight]

On reconsideration, I think the facts of this case might actually lead to some prison sentences. Although not nearly as many as there should be - really anyone involved in this including the judge that fabricated paperwork based off dubious details, other law enforcement agencies that blessed it, etc should be charged as part of the criminal conspiracy, which they can then explain away in court, as is routinely done to suspects who aren't government employees.

I think the root of the distrust is there are many other similar cases which seemingly go completely unpunished (eg Afroman). So the details being much worse here is causing proportionally more outrage, when the reality is that those details being more severe means we might actually end up seeing some semblance of justice for at least some of the perps on this one.