[camgunz]

Sure, I'm saying:

- there are big differences between US capitalism and European social democracy

- European social democracies are trending more socialist all the time

> European countries are capitalist, not socialist, and got where they are by being so.

Ehhhh communist movements, multiple devastating wars, and unions had a hand in it too.

[rsynnott]

> - European social democracies are trending more socialist all the time

Eh? Which ones? As a European this is very much news to be; not much seizing of the means of production going on. If anything, some divesting of the means of production; heavily regulated privatisation of state energy, transport etc monopolies has been going on all over Western Europe for a while.

I realise that in the US, the colloquial definition of ‘socialist’ these days is more or less “not actively going around kicking poor people”, but the idea that Europe is becoming more socialist by any reasonable definition is a bit out there.

[camgunz]

There's a recent rightward shift for sure, but long term benefits are increasing, unions are gaining power, and you're seeing people use democracy to force industry to adopt green policies. This is the power dynamic described by socialism: people control companies, not the other way around.

[constantcrying]

>you're seeing people use democracy to force industry to adopt green policies

No, you are seeing governments force green policies against the will of the majority.

[rhaway84773]

https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

This is a ranking of economic freedom which strongly aligns with capitalism. The U.S. ranks 25th behind European countries like Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Germany, Iceland, etc.

[camgunz]

It looks like this ranks things like freedom to invest, trade, etc., none of which are incompatible with socialism.

[constantcrying]

Investment directly implies private ownership of the means of production.