[Bostonian]

You can believe that collection agencies behave illegally and also think that is unethical not to pay your debts to the best of your ability. Even if paying consumer debts is optional, not being able to get credit in the future, especially a home mortgage, is an incentive to pay. Some employers check the credit scores of applicants, and such scores probably are a decent indicator of whether someone has their life in order.

[pavel_lishin]

Once the debt has been sold off, it's very likely that your credit score has already been impacted.

On the ethics front: let's say I owe money to a credit card company. They sell it off to EZ-Sleez, the debt collection company. What do I owe to them? I certainly didn't borrow money from them. We have no particular relationship. They have one with the credit card company, but that's none of my business, from an ethics standpoint. The idea of selling debt itself feels very unethical to me, and I'd like to see that justified before we talk about what we may or may not owe people.

[SoftTalker]

I've had a debt go to collections one time. It was a medical bill that I had somehow lost track of (or maybe never received). It was legit but I had never seen it. I will say that the collection company was very cordial and almost apologetic, I told them I would need to confirm the debt since it was a complete surprise, which I did, and I paid the provider (not the collector) directly. Never heard from them again, and it never affected my credit score.

[singleshot_]

You have a relationship; creation of the relationship was enabled if not formed when you signed the card agreement and agreed that your debt could be sold, transferred, or exchanged to or with a third party. If you thought that was unethical, you should have redlined it at the time.

[pavel_lishin]

And then the credit card company would have told me to piss right off, and I'd be struggling to live in American society without credit cards or a credit score.

[aworks]

I was just in line at the grocery where an elderly couple bought $600 worth of groceries and paid by check. I wasn't even sure stores still took checks.

[tehwebguy]

> Once the debt has been sold off, it's very likely that your credit score has already been impacted.

Right — this “optional” description really only means anything after the borrower has nuked their credit for many years.

[badpun]

> The idea of selling debt itself feels very unethical to me

You must be appaled by the existence of the global bonds market then.

[lukas099]

I'm guessing you agreed that the CC company could sell your debt when you signed up for the card.

[pavel_lishin]

Could be! But I'm not sure that a coerced choice - "if you don't pay us exactly on time, we'll sell your information to criminals who'll harass your family" - is itself ethical.

And yes, it is a coerced choice. It's difficult to live in modern American society without a credit card, or a credit score which is very difficult to keep high without a credit card.

[vel0city]

It's not that difficult to live without a credit card. Debit cards don't have that same collections concept and can almost always be charged through credit card networks netting the same outward experience.

As for not building a credit score, well, it sounds like you're not really interested in taking out loans in terms that others wish to offer them, so what good is a credit score? The people who care about credit scores are largely the same who will only do contracts with collections classes and be unwilling to adjust contracts. If you're working with a lender who is willing to change contracts like that they're probably also going to be fine evaluating your non-normal financial arrangements.

[SV_BubbleTime]

You are being hyperbolic, and the argument isn’t strong.

[cyberlurker]

In both California and New York I had to prove I had good credit to rent a half decent apartment. And I don’t blame the landlords, plenty of people sign leases and never pay. I think lots of people take advantage of a system that is designed to have protections for those who hit hard times.

[pavel_lishin]

Every ecosystem will have parasites, at every trophic level.