[paraboli]

The worry about the doom loop is not that rich people lose money but that the current budget is tied to high tax receipts and when assessments go down tax revenue will plunge. Services will have to be cut to balance the budget.

[mschuster91]

> Services will have to be cut to balance the budget.

No. The US could also go and fix their tax code for once - start taxing the uber rich. Warren f..ing Buffet complained years ago he has to pay less tax than his secretary. A lot of the issues that cripple many Western countries relate to stupid tax breaks for the rich and mega corporations who have bought out politics.

[idopmstuff]

> The US could also go and fix their tax code for once - start taxing the uber rich.

We're talking about a municipality, not the US. Plus your whole point is fine in theory, but it's not going to happen any time in the near future. The question of whether SF is going to get stuck in a doom loop is a real one, and it should be examined through a lens of the social and political environment we're in, not a theoretical and unrealistic one.

[telotortium]

If you want a Sweden-style social democracy, you need to significantly raise taxes on at least the upper quintile (in the US, that's just over $130k - coincidentally, that's around the cutoff for income subject to Social Security tax). But >$130k/year income is most common among the professional-managerial class, which has become a core Democrat constituency, so Democrats will for sure not raise taxes on them - Democrats have already promised not to raise taxes on households making less than $400k. So the US tax code isn't getting fixed anytime soon, unfortunately.

[rhaway84773]

That might be necessary in the steady state but Sweden never redistributed as much wealth to the top 0.1% as the U.S. has in the last 40 odd years.

In theory the US could go very far taxing a much smaller base because it has allowed so much money to be redistributed to this tiny base.

But even ignoring that your comment is unnecessary. Even if a Sweden like social democracy is the goal (which it doesn’t need to be…there’s many stopping points in between), the US doesn’t need to do it overnight. Raising taxes on the richest and then increasing the tax rates on lower brackets gradually over the decades as needed is an absolutely fine way to head in that direction as well.

[msh]

Sweden style democracy only works because everyone is heavily taxed, from poor to rich.

[telotortium]

Yes, like Rainier says, a VAT would be very helpful to have as well. The US can probably get away with a little less taxation in theory due to having so many PMC high-income earners, but that would depend on the US knowing how to run government services efficiently...

My larger point is that Americans are largely under the delusion that heavily taxing the 1% would be enough, which is just not the case.

[mschuster91]

> My larger point is that Americans are largely under the delusion that heavily taxing the 1% would be enough, which is just not the case.

728 people in the US own more assets than half the US population together [1].

Let that fact sink in, and then ask yourself why the fuck no one in the US has taken to the pitchforks yet. At least here in Europe, the lower classes are on serious strike runs the last months - the UK, France and Germany are just examples.

You know what, you could leave each of these 728 uber rich people a billion dollar each. Enough money that neither they nor their children and their children have to work a day in their lifes ever. Basically, aristocracy, "landed gentry" or however you want to call it, just legally recognized. The rest of the wealth gets distributed among the population. Easy, isn't it?

[1] https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/04/13/728-billionaires-hold...

[oliwarner]

Assets.

I'm not defending the massive inequity which clearly exists, but wealth tax that targets a theoretical (eg) land value will lead to silliness as this 0.00017% aggressively devalue their holdings to avoid this tax.

[cinntaile]

Sweden has a higher wealth inequality than the US. Mind you this is different from income inequality.

[rayiner]

Sweden also has a 25% VAT.

[GenerWork]

>The US could also go and fix their tax code for once - start taxing the uber rich.

SF is the most liberal city in the most liberal state. They don't have any issues taxing rich people (or any other person, that's for sure).

[closeparen]

The wealth in California is the equity that longtime residents hold in their homes. This is untouchable thanks to Prop 13.

[anonuser123456]

Not everyone believes taking Bill Gates’ money and sending it to random drug addicts in SF is very good policy.

[ipaddr]

Bad example as his foundations probably does this through outreach programs

[Tyrek]

Foundations that are probably better run than local government.

[mschuster91]

Which is true but extremely problematic in itself. The poor and destitute should not depend on the graces of billionaires (or, worse, churches) for their basic needs, society should take care of them.

[rayiner]

Define “rich.”

[mistrial9]

perhaps that is true in the abstract - but the budget for the City of San Franisco is +$1Billion US dollars Per Year. Add to that, they routinely cheat small business and tourists on money (traffic tickets, multi-year payment terms for services rendered). Thirdly, the largest population group of the City is ethnic Chinese, some of whom are quite good with money.

[jschveibinz]

This.