[sgt]

I think the frequent comparisons of GDP leads the West to heavily underestimate Russia.

While GDP may be lower than Italy and per capita is weak, a nation like Russia can probably accomplish an order of magnitude more large scale projects, and also sustain a certain economy climate for much much longer than we think.

So don't underestimate Russia, even though we'd like to think they're soon running out of steam to continue the war in Ukraine.

[mcpackieh]

On the other side of the comparison, I think Italy is a lot more capable than many people give them credit for, so the comparison is not quite as damning as it may first seem.

On just one axis of consideration, Italy has a blue water navy with power projection capabilities roughly similar to Russia and India, surpassed only by the United States, the UK and France.

I think Italy also ranks higher than most anglosphere laypeople would estimate in terms of GDP and scientific output, although this is hard to pin down since I'm talking about layperson perception. Basically, I think Italy is more relevant and capable than people generally give it credit for.

[sgt]

Fair enough, Italy is actually known for science and entrepreneurship. People forget that.

[VancouverMan]

GDP seems like a very questionable, and likely misleading, measure to me, even for Western nations.

For example, Canada's inflation-adjusted per-capita GDP has supposedly increased over time, yet for many Canadians, the standard of living is now noticeably lower than it was (or would have likely been) two or three decades ago.

In terms of production, Canadian businesses and governments generally don't seem to have become more capable and productive, and actually seem to struggle now with the sorts of fundamental work that they managed to pull off in the past. Many common services and products are noticeably worse now than in the past, in terms of cost, quality, reliability, delivery time, and so forth.

GDP is a metric that I can't trust.

[sgt]

And very interesting to note that your name is VancouverMan. The other day I saw a YouTube video about an IT guy struggling in Vancouver and he mentioned one example of two immigrants - both doctors - having to stay in someone's basement as there was simply no way for them to afford a house (rent or buy).

[justsomehnguy]

My favourite tidbit for when someone brings 'less than Italy hur dur':

Italy: Size of the labor force from 2014 to 2024: ~23M

Number of pensioners in Russia from 2012 to 2022: ~44M

Italy population? ~58M

There are almost twice as many pensioners in Russia than people in the labour force in Italy and it's 2/3 of the whole Italy population. The whole GDP comparison here is moot.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/275312/labor-force-in-it...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1093953/number-of-retire...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy