[PheonixPharts]

Kinda chisels away at their official "We're not a keylogger!" argument:

> Is Grammarly a keylogger?

> No. A keylogger records every keystroke, sends data to a third party for the benefit of that party, and does so without the user’s knowledge. Grammarly’s product doesn’t fit any of these descriptions. [0].

Certainly the data being sent must be primarily for their own benefit. Clearly if it was for the benefit of the user then they would have not need to make turning it off a premium feature. Maybe Grammarly will create an AI that makes their product better, but they're still using user data to make that product in the first place.

[0]. https://support.grammarly.com/hc/en-us/articles/360003816032...

[joshspankit]

A keylogger

1. records every keystroke

This is a new distinction to me. So a macOS program that can record everything except specific password fields (due to the OS protections) can’t be called a keylogger?

2. sends data to a third party for the benefit of that party

Again a weird distinction. Grammarly is a 3rd party to it’s users when they watch the interaction between those users and the web form they are using, and are they saying that they have no partnerships with other companies?

3. does so without the user’s knowledge

This might be the only one I agree with, but even then it’s with caveats. If I as an employer tell my employees that there is software installed to record every keystroke, does that exclude it from being called a keylogger? Probably not. If I do it regardless of informing them and do the same thing with the data, does it particularly matter whether they have knowledge of it? Morally I’d also say probably not.

Does it really “not fit any of these descriptions”? I’d say it does.

[sockaddr]

It’s an argument tactic that works on people who need precompiled opinions.

Redefine something in a very qualified way that maneuvers around the issue and that a non-thinking person wouldn’t notice and then say “see! A =! B” and the non-thinking person accepts that new fact and is now accepting of your broader argument.

People who use grammarly are commoditizing themselves and they’re too dumb to notice.

[JohnFen]

Yeah, their argument is a bit ridiculous.

I use keyloggers on my own machines sometimes. I'm a first party, not third, and I've fully disclosed to myself that I'm using them. I've even obtained 100% informed consent for the activity.

But they're still keyloggers.

[arcticpeanuts]

Is Grammarly a third party when you interact with them or their product? And they don't actually record the data without the user's knowledge, do they?

They might not be a keylogger by their own definition, but everyone can design a definition like that: a thief steals stuff, gives it to a third party for the benefit of that party, and does so without the users's knowledge.

[sshine]

Robin Hood wasn't a thief by his own accord, because he steals openly and gives it to the poor.

Grammarly aren't keylogging by their own accord, because they tell you they're doing it, and they keep the data to themselves.

Still, I feel robbed.