[pdntspa]

If you didn't have that attitude you could have learned that stuff in the last 6 months and then you wouldnt have to worry about it.

Also, "power user friendly" but hates CLI..... I see. You might have to hand in your power user card over that one

I am a diehard windows user but the OS's affinity for burying settings in nested, labyrinthine setting dialogs gets old super fast.

[Workaccount2]

This comment perfectly sums up why linux is perpetually stuck with close to zero adoption.

"It's not linux that's the problem, it's you!"

[pdntspa]

Yeah, forgive me for thinking that people need to meet the computer halfway. I keep forgetting that most are too stupid that they cannot be trusted to make effective use of such powerful machines.

[wwtrv]

> forgive me for thinking that people need to meet the computer halfway

Seems like a very defeatist attitude to have..

[pdntspa]

Defeatist? How? We don't just put anyone in a vehicle, they have to have a license. That's a bit much for a computer but what is wrong with having to learn?

[wwtrv]

> what is wrong with having to learn?

Often that just seems like an argument used to justify poor UX. There is nothing wrong with learning but many people have other interests and/or prefer/have to spend their effort on learning other things.

Outright dismissing them as "too stupid" seems a bit elitist especially if you want them to user your software.

[skeaker]

> If you didn't have that attitude you could have learned that stuff in the last 6 months and then you wouldnt have to worry about it.

The issue is that this has to scale to everyone if the goal here is mass adoption (meaning your family, maybe including your grandma, running Linux). If someone says "I don't have 6 months to learn this" or "I couldn't learn this even with 6 months to do so" and your goal is mass adoption, your action should be resolving whatever the roadblock is, not blaming the individual with the issue.

[short_throw]

"You could have learned that stuff in the last 6 months"

"You might have to hand in your power user card over that one"

And these attitudes are why most consumers almost exclusively use proprietary software. You have to let people be lazy to get mass adoption. Businesses know and exploit this, the foss world writes tools with steep learning curves and says "take it or leave it." And that's perfectly fine as long as we can be honest with ourselves: the vast majority of people will never invest the time to learn to use cmd line applications, or debug wifi drivers, or learn to use an environment that's more complicated than what they already have. Time is money so even a highly motivated person should question spending months to learn new tools.

I love Linux for being superior for servers and hackable and having so much powerful software available for free...but if I weren't a software developer and I didn't enjoy this stuff there'd be no justification for the time I spent learning it.

[pdntspa]

And when you look around you and realize that everything sucks, now you know why.

Enshittification is real. Knowledge is the antidote...

[iraqmtpizza]

linux bros think CLI is required for everything but they don't realize that it's only required for everything in linux

[pdntspa]

yeah because clicking through half a dozen nested dialogs to change my DNS settings is good fucking design

Or even better, for many things the option doesn't exist any more? Why? Because fuck you thats why!

I just LOVE watching Windows take away features because some normie asshole decided options were bad for usability and testing.

Typing this on my Windows daily driver, btw. And I have to drop into CLI on a pretty regular basis.

[iraqmtpizza]

Tree structures are terrible design, yes. They shouldn't teach trees in computer science. Everything should be flat. Just like the Earth.

I love watching Linux stay stuck on design choices from 1970 because to change the interface now would cause the operating system to implode and the resulting riot would exceed even the asspain over systemd

[pdntspa]

Some of those design choices are pretty good, they stick around for good reason. Everything is a file/chaining together tiny commands/text-based configuration files are computing zen for a large portion of users.

A lot of text config now has way more documentation -- right there above the freaking setting! -- than a Windows design analogy could ever cram into (never-used) help files. The majority of config I deal with is like 25 lines of comments for every 1 line of setting.

Systemd's not that bad either, I will take writing systemd config files over trying to make a service daemon in init.d scripts any day of the week.

[iraqmtpizza]

So what happens if you accidentally delete the comment in the text config? There's a parser that generates an error and recovers from there? Or it's just gone? LOL.

Do you know how annoying it is to have to go into etc/netbeans.conf, scroll all the way down, then find the JDK path from somewhere else and paste it in the quotes after netbeans_jdkhome= just to get Netbeans to run? That's not computing zen! It's the reason nobody uses Netbeans -- old, bad design.

The more people use your help files, the more you know your program sucks. This is not disputable. This is why Linux requires a literal support group called LUG.

[pdntspa]

LUG = Linux User's Group? That's more of a fan club...

If you accidentally delete the comments you can usually look the file up online, sometimes even just googling the name of the file will do the trick. Sometimes there's a default or template sitting right next to the file in its folder.

And I don't think you're going to find any arguments against your experience with Netbeans, at last recently. It's old software. New software doesn't just magically spring into being, it has to be written. And there's plenty of good replacements for NetBeans (I like IntelliJ) so I don't know what the issue is there. It's like calling Windows 3.1's Program Manager 'dated'... its like, well duh, of course its dated. It's old!

Also can't you just `echo $JDK_HOME` and paste that output into your config?

> The more people use your help files, the more you know your program sucks.

I really hate it when programs make important decisions for me. Having optionality kind of requires documentation, so one can understand the change they are trying to make. One man's intuitive is another man's pain in the ass. To say nothing of differences between culture, time period, training, or upbringing, that might change those assumptions.

If you want mindless information appliances, you are very likely holding one in your hand right now. Mobile is fantastic for that form of braindead design.