[xyzzy_plugh]

Anecdotally my org is on a hiring tear lately and we're completely remote, and the quality of candidates has steeply risen as of late. I mean really good candidates I'd rarely see before are pouring into my inbox. I've never talked to so many folks currently at Google, Meta, Amazon, but also big banks and other F500s.

Many candidates are coy about their reasons for leaving, especially given all the layoffs, but, still anecdotally, the trend I've seen is for folks to be sending out a lot of feelers during RTO and many folks have even told me straight up that's why they're looking. They want flexible hours and work locations.

I talked to a director last week who spends 1/3 the year in ski country, 1/3 the year in the Midwest and 1/3 the year on the coast. He's not going back, and practically anyone would be lucky to have him.

It's going to be a bloodbath.

[antisthenes]

> I talked to a director last week who spends 1/3 the year in ski country, 1/3 the year in the Midwest and 1/3 the year on the coast. He's not going back, and practically anyone would be lucky to have him.

Does he actually spend any time working?

[McDyver]

> Does he actually spend any time working?

This seems the exact thought process of management wanting people to RTO.

They forget there's time, and life, after working hours. And the less you need to commute, the more free time you have to actually live and enjoy life.

[antonjs]

I grew up in a mountain town, and the mountain started doing 8 am openings for season pass holders. Some colleagues and I would hit the slopes, ski for an hour, and be in the office at 930. My actual productivity after that kind of fresh air and exercise every morning was much higher.

We also had an employee with a 'powder clause' in her contract. Any day with over a certain amount of snowfall meant a day off.

[ryandrake]

> We also had an employee with a 'powder clause' in her contract. Any day with over a certain amount of snowfall meant a day off.

This person is my new hero.

I wonder how common this is, though. I mean, I've mostly worked for medium-to-huge sized companies, and as WorkerBee number 56612, I have zero ability to get anything non-standard or cute into my actual employment contract. I get the same standard boilerplate as all 50K other WorkerBees, and if I don't like it, I can go pound pavement.

[xyzzy_plugh]

This is a lie they tell you. In reality there is no "standard employment contract." It's a living document. There's a non-zero chance that every colleague you work with has a slightly different contract than yours.

The world is messy and The System is designed to accommodate the mess. In my experience, you get maybe one or two free negotiation points to spend without any consequences. Worst case, they say no. You can't typically change everything, but getting more salary or time off or flexible hours or signing bonus or a powder clause are not crazy in the grand scheme of things.

Once you sign, though, the game is over. Unless you're a keystone it's unlikely you'll be able to renegotiate.

[FreshStart]

Protestant work ethic needs constant surveillance from above or else all humans do is sinning and slothing. Completely opposed to the self-employed employee model that gets stuff done out of intrinsic motivation.

[antisthenes]

I can't imagine essentially "moving" to a new place 3 times a year.

I have pets and would need to take at least 3-4 days off to pack and move everything, so unless this dude owns 3 properties, it seems like a massive time expenditure to do this. Not to mention being incredibly stressful (which would make me less productive).

Unless they are a digital nomad with a laptop and a pair of flip-flops.

I make no assumptions about their actual work day. Maybe they are incredibly productive.

[dustedcodes]

What?

    > I can't imagine essentially "moving" to a new place 3 times a year.

You're not moving. You don't need to pack your microwave, sofa and stamp collection and organise 3 trucks to move all your stuff. You pack 1 or 2 suitcases with the things you need for the climate for 4 months (which goes by faster than you think).

    > I have pets

Ok, others don't so I don't see how that's relevant

    > would need to take at least 3-4 days off to pack and move everything

As I said, it's only 1-2 suitcases. You can pack them in a couple hours. If you need an entire day then you do it on a Saturday. Not sure why packing requires extra time off work. You make everything sound so stressful. Do you tend to stress about many normal life things?

    > so unless this dude owns 3 properties

Perhaps they do, but truthfully you don't need to own a place to spend somewhere 4 months. I've been to places for a few months and most rentals have fully fitted kitchens and basic things such as hair dryers, etc.

    > Not to mention being incredibly stressful (which would make me less productive).

Being stressed over nothing sounds like a subjective you problem, not a general problem. People also pack suitcases to go on holiday and going somewhere nice is for most people associated with happy hormones and not stress hormones.

    > I make no assumptions about their actual work day. Maybe they are incredibly productive.

Exactly, they are incredibly productive because nothing was said that would even remotely suggest the opposite.

[xyzzy_plugh]

The folks I've known to do this have been hard workers, so I would guess yes.

I used to work with an incredible engineer who went skiing from 6-9am every day and then again at 6pm, weather permitting. Slopes were 5 minutes from his front door.

If you tried to fit this sort of thing in while working in an office, then no you probably wouldn't spend much time working, and that's the whole point.

[Volundr]

FWIW we had an engineer who basically did this, and he was definitely a top performer. Depending on where he was and what the activity he was there for he might work nonstandard hours, but he definitely got shit done.

Director level non-standard hours might be a non-starter, but nothing about the lifestyle demanded it, it was really just about maximizing the time spent skiing or whatever. One could always knock of at 5 and get a few hours in.

[antonjs]

Also much easier to ski or hike on the weekend if it's right next door rather than a four hour drive (looking at you I80). Add in potentially having kids growing up around nature and even working standard hours M-F can make the work remote from your preferred environment much more worth it.

[briandear]

How does location determine how much someone works?

[theshrike79]

The old think is that you're only supposed to have fun on the weekends. Weeks are for WORKING.

People recoil when you tell them you go to the gym in the middle of the work day and maybe walk the dog in the afternoon.