[icebraining]

Linux won't be ready until you can download a file from the Internet, run it, and install it just with a couple clicks (and not "you need to set the 'exectuable' flag!" error).

We're talking about Ubuntu, not all Linux distributions. And in Ubuntu, that works fine: try downloading any .deb and double clicking it.

[Iv]

I actually find this criticism hilarous because I have observed that using a software center is far more easy for novices to do than downloading a file, choosing the correct one, saving it to a folder, finding it and opening it. And sometimes (far less frequently nowadays I admit) manage the software dependencies and download another thing.

This clumsy way is an habit from windows, debian has been light years ahead for a long time. Search your package name, click, click, install. Now App stores are all the rage and people fail to recognize that they have existed since a decade on linux...

[freehunter]

I'm using 11.10 at home, and when I download a file from the Internet as a .deb, it will install from the Ubuntu Software Center (but not if an update is running). If I download it as anything else (.sh, etc), it needs to have the flag set manually. Unfortunately, quite a few installers come as .sh for universal compatibility.

Most recently, installing VMWare tools I ran into this. Granted most consumers won't be installing VMWare Tools, but you do run into the issue of "what format will your software ship in?" .deb? .rpm?

[icebraining]

I think the question is whether one should treat different distros as just different "flavors" of the same OS, or different OSs. I mean, no one complains about Mac OSX because their software packages don't work in other BSD based OSs.

[MatthewPhillips]

It's a legitimate criticism that you can't install software while updating your system.

[Jach]

This is one reason I moved away from Ubuntu, other package managers don't have this problem. Is it unsolvable for Ubuntu/Debian? I don't know. I don't think it matters to most users. At least the users who have put up with "You must restart now" and "Make sure to close all other programs before continuing" for all these years.

[spurgu]

Oh please, don't get me started on installing software on Windows or OS X. Linux package managers are the nuts!

[MatthewPhillips]

See my above post. Not being able to install 2 unrelated packages at once is a legit criticism. The merits of Windows/OSX installation are irrelevant to that point.

[ktizo]

Open up a package manager, select two, or loads of, unrelated packages, apply.

Is not a legitimate criticism.

[MatthewPhillips]

Run an update of 60 packages, browse the internet while waiting for it to complete, find a .deb you're curious about and try to install it. You can't. Regardless of dependencies. Apt uses a global lock. That is bad UX, whether you acknowledge it or not.

[ktizo]

How often, other than when you run the first large system update, is this a real issue?

I mean, I'm all for the *.deb to automatically queue when clicked, as that would be nice, but I do not see why I would particularly want it to mess with the system while the system is being messed with.

Also, I could always virtualise if I want the functionality of having an explicit split between system and userland.

[icebraining]

Well, the criticism was in fact "you can't install software while updating your system," and it's true - if your system is updating, you have to wait to install another package.

In practice, I don't see this as a major problem, but on the other hand, many people have slower connections that me.

It'd be nice if the apt clients could download the packages without locking the database, and let you select and queue packages even if others are already being installed.

[ktizo]

That certainly appears to be the original criticism, but the criticism seemed to be moving, so I answered where it had seemingly moved to.

Is the risk of trying to shoot a moving target.

[icebraining]

Sure, I quoted that particular line for a reason; I don't disagree with the rest.

[ktizo]

You can install software while updating your system, just not by using the same process that is currently updating your system and there is no particular distinction between software and system anyway.

A better apt queuing system might be nice admittedly, but if apt is installing software/updates with dependencies, then letting it complete before other software with their own dependencies are added, might be a good idea.

But you can always use one of the other myriad of ways to install software other than apt, while apt is running.