[jackcviers3]

Modern features:

1. lsp-mode/eglot

2. package management

3. treesitter grammars

4. Portability - win/linux/mac/unix/android

5. Graphical User Interface - you can browse the web and watch YouTube in Emacs. Customize has buttons, forms, menus.

6. Treemacs/Treeview/speedbar: you know the multipanel view in Intellij or the project explorer in Intellij/vscod? Yeah, that.

7. Actual macros and function definitions, without needing to post them as an extension.

8. Interactive repl.

9. 5 different terminal emulators built-in.

10. Automated fuzzy everything with helm-M-x and helm. Exactly like Command-p in vscode.

11. github, gitlab integration with magit.

12. Copilot, tabnine, and chatGPT integration.

13. Hundreds of themes.

14. We've had shareable, secure remote collaboration for over a decade with wemux.

15. Use any ttf.

16. Mouse editing and command binding.

17. Use every build tool with projectile-compile-project.

18. Refactoring with lsp.

19. Autocompletion and jump to source.

20. Session save and restoration with desktop-save.

21. Slack integration.

22. Debugger with dap-mode.

23. Individual test only runs with dap and avy-lens.

24. blame with.magit-blame.

25. Pixel scrolling.

25. Transparency with seethru.

28. Rest client with variables and session storage (like postman, but free).

29. Browse compressed files as if they are normal directories and save to them.

30. Containerized deployment via flatpak.

31. Docker, docker-compose integration, kubernetes, aws, datadog, Azure integrations...

All of this fits in around 500 lones of copy_paste/cloneable emacs configuration, most of which is use-package declarations. Nary a defun or global-bind-key in sight, and because emacs is a full elisp ide, and it is actually executable code, it's debuggable on launch, unlike myriads of json files.

I'm trying to think of anything else that can possibly be interpreted as 'modern' from a ux standpoint. I certainly can't think of a feature that Intellij has that emacs doesn't that is core to the ide experience. And most of my emacs tools are better than the vscode version of them, at least in terms of invasion into the editor buffer or integration with the editor ux.

The one thing that's not modern is the standard copy and paste commands, but that's super easy to customize. I guess you can't drag and drop buffer frame borders in multiple buffer layouts if you hide scrollbars, and the message buffer isn't resizable...

[shadowgovt]

But vscode has basically all of it out of the box. Maybe after installing one or two extensions, which it recommends for you and you can install via a GUI.

As someone who uses emacs most often: VSCode is shaped a lot more closely to a modern aesthetic by default. If you've been following along with emacs all this time and keep up to date with the latest changes, you can easily accrete the configuration to make your emacs look like a modern tool, but it doesn't start configured that way.

[bborud]

Why downvote this guy for essentially just pointing out that Emacs isn't terribly useful out of the box if you want to develop software? This is objectively true, isn't it?

It is like assembling IKEA furniture if IKEA furniture didn't come with a usable manual and there are nine different descriptions online of how to assemble your new chair. Of which 5 don't actually produce a chair and two that are strangely incompatible with how you prefer to situate your couch.

Rather than be angry with people for pointing out something that is very likely to be true, how about listening to _valid_ user criticisms? And perchance see if something can be learned from it?

This is valid feedback.

[ParetoOptimal]

> Why downvote this guy for essentially just pointing out that Emacs isn't terribly useful out of the box if you want to develop software? This is objectively true, isn't it?

I don't think that's true.

Do you include installing emacs packages as out of the box as you would vscode plugins though?

[shadowgovt]

vscode recommends plugins to install as it encounters file types they would be appropriate for. It's not strictly out of the box, but it's fairly close to out of the box... Out of the box, vscode comes configured to guide the developer to enhance it as needed.

[bborud]

Well, it is or it isn't.

Here's what you can try: do a clean install of both, then document the steps you had to take to get VS Code + Go plugin to work vs getting Emacs to within a reasonable fraction of what VS Code will provide. Post your Emacs config when you are done. (As well as links to the sources where you found working configurations).

PS: good luck nailing the language server stuff on the first try on Emacs.

[lycopodiopsida]

Quite easy - install doom emacs, comment out the ;;(go +lsp) in init.el and run doom sync. You are done and can do go development now with 1 line of config.

[rout39574]

I think you might want to contemplate that "Fashionable" is semantically equivalent to 'dated'. You are excited that it's dated to 'now'.

I know you see this fashionable UX as an advantage, but what I think about is how you're going to have fashionable evolution in UX thinking inflicted on you. It feels to me like someone coming into my shop and moving all my tools.

Gratuitous example from an adjacent area of nerdliness: Were you around when Microsoft decided to drop the UX they'd been using for a few decades and change to "The Ribbon" ?

[shadowgovt]

> You are excited that it's dated to 'now'.

Yes, I am. That's very convenient for me.

> Were you around when Microsoft decided to drop the UX they'd been using for a few decades and change to "The Ribbon" ?

I was, and you're right. Microsoft functionally owns the chrome for vscode and it isn't as configurable as far as I can tell as emacs at that layer. There's certainly a possibility they will make a decision later to mess everything up.

But for now, my previous observation stands. I have to do less configuration out of the box to get vscode into a daily use work configuration than a naked emacs install.

I highlight this because it's not an unsolvable problem for emacs. It requires making a recommended default configuration that will be more correct for the 95% use case and advocating that configuration on the install channels for the tool.

[rvdginste]

> I highlight this because it's not an unsolvable problem for emacs. It requires making a recommended default configuration that will be more correct for the 95% use case and advocating that configuration on the install channels for the tool.

For people interested in this, I know about Doom Emacs [1] and Spacemacs [2].

[1] https://github.com/doomemacs/doomemacs [2] https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs

[worthless-trash]

> But vscode has basically all of it out of the box.

Are you sure ?

[lelanthran]

I don't understand why this was downvoted.

Vscode out-the-box is much more complete for coding than Emacs out-the-box.

While my Emacs-foo is not that great, I have relied on it for a lot over 25 years of programming. Recently, though, I gave Vscode a try, and while it's buggy as hell when you load up on the extensions you need, it's not that bad!

Slow? Yes, compared to a Vim or Emacs similarly set up. A wee bit bloated? Certainly, compared to my Vim and Emacs configuration.

But, really, it's the one I recommend to new developers. Not Vim, nor Emacs, even though I use those myself.

[agumonkey]

vscode has a lot for itself, but i see my colleagues use it, it's still too mainstream and enterprisey. the git interface adds more confusion and reduces speed..

[shadowgovt]

No disagreement. I find myself just using terminal instead of the vscode git interface almost all the time.

[agumonkey]

postmodern features: [e]lisp metalevel customization