[ethbr0]

> (on Paris Syndrome uniquely afflicting Japanese tourists) Or it could be the jarring confrontation of the a priori ideal of Paris as exotic and friendly with the rather more abrasive nature of the city’s inhabitants.

Having visited Tokyo (which I assume is the most Paris-like Japan gets?) and Paris (just got back from most recent trip), this rings true.

Average "mild annoyance" from a Parisian would equal "severe disrespect" from a Tokyo resident.

Plus add in the French propensity not to apologize for normal, everyday oops-type things, and I imagine it'd be very jarring.

That said, on my most recent trip to Paris, I actually found Parisians a lot nicer than the last time I was there (~1995ish?).

There's a lot of Gallic-isms, but even as an American with extremely bad and limited French, most people were very nice.

PS: Not sure why tacos are the new craze in Paris, but y'all should really import some Tejanos to get the full experience. Feta never belongs on a taco that's not shrimp.

[Doches]

It's hard to pick up on as an American, but "French Tacos" actually don't have any genealogy in common with Tex-Mex tacos. They're essentially north African shwarma (lamb kebab, fries, cheese sauce, lettuce shoved in a wrap) re-marketed in a way that doesn't invoke knee-jerk racism from the French mainstream. Calling them "tacos" lets them get away with being exotic, and since the average Français doesn't really have any preconceived notions about Mexico or Mexican food either way it doesn't conjure up any negative associations. Calling them "Le French Tacos" is even more re-assuring -- they're tacos, but 'frenchified', so they must be OK.

But that same light-skinned frenchman would turn up his gallic nose an authentic arabic shwarma, even stumbling from from le bar at 2am. That the only difference between a good shwarma and a good French taco is /maybe/ the choice of cheese makes no difference...

(Source: live in Toulouse, have snarky Lebanese friends)

[boudin]

It's just a variant of kebab and shwarma that gained popularity. Nothing to do with the need to rebrand it because of racism. Shwarma (or kebabs as most people call those) shops fed generations of french studients and party-goers and have been everywhere for decades.

It's kind of funny though, french tacos really took over France in the last decade, I guess because of fast food chain like o'taco. When I left France in 2015 it was unheard of where I was living, now it's everywhere.

[dragonwriter]

> , but "French Tacos" actually don't have any genealogy in common with Tex-Mex tacos.

They have a kind of connection beyond the name, even though neither is a linear descendant of the other. Tex-Mex tacos are a descendant of traditional central Mexican tacos, as also are tacos al pastor; but tacos al pastor are also descendants of schwarma, which French tacos derive from. So they're like cousins by marriage.

[MrDrMcCoy]

I'm interested in the history of food evolution and proliferation like this. Do you know any good places where I can read more about this?

[panda888888]

French tacos are the weirdest food I've ever eaten. Imagine chicken cordon bleu wrapped inside a big burrito-sized tortilla.

[cguess]

Norway is this too. I tried to make actual Tex-mex ground beef tacos for some friends and they were abhorred by it.

[kbenson]

Honestly, one of the the things that worries me the most about possibly moving out of California (being a native) to another state at some point is lack of good Mexican food if I'm not careful about where I move. I'm sure it's much worse in the majority of countries I'd be interested in moving to as well.

[cguess]

Most of the US, in cities, you can find solid Mexican food. Chicago probably has the best "authentic" non-Cali Mexican in the country even. You won't have to worry just might have to hunt a bit.

The rest of the world? Yea you're screwed. I found one place in Berlin that did legit Mexican because it was run by Mexicans (Santa Maria in Kruezeberg) but that's literally the only decent Mexican I've found in the 50+ countries I've visited and trust me, I've looked in all of them.

Good news is you can find the ingredients for good Mexican in pretty much all of them and do it yourself. The hardest to source is proper jalapeños or any dried peppers, but there's usually a speciality shop somewhere that will be able to give you most of what you need. Cilantro can also be a bit of a pain, but it's way easier than it used to be even 10 years ago.

[kbenson]

Yeah, I'm not worried about it in sizeable cities, but me moving out of CA would probably be coupled with being a bit more rural (and that's coming from not living in a "large" city already, as I live an hour north of SF). I can move anywhere in CA or any of the southwest states and probably be within 20-30 minutes of some fairly good passably authentic Mexican food. My confidence in that erodes the farther from the southwest or a large city I am.

We actually cook a few dishes fairly regularly (the pork tinga recipe from America's Test Kitchen is actually amazing, if you're looking for something, and dead simple to boot), but there's something comforting knowing it's easy to get some of your favorite food done well on demand on short notice for those days you really aren't feeling like dealing with making dinner.

[cguess]

Luckily mexican immigrants live all over the US, so if you hunt hard you can probably find some good places, even in rural areas.

[chrisdhoover]

The worry is real. You cannot find a decent mission burrito afield. It really a local specialty of San Francisco. I suspect the same is true for burritos found in San Diego. And those tacos in Texas, on flour tortillas, well those aren’t tacos at all but incomplete and unfinished burritos. OK if you want to rebrand a half assed burrito and call it a taco go right ahead. And none of it is a sandwich - not burgers, dogs, falafel, shawarma, gyros, burritos or tacos. A taco is not a sandwich

[csdvrx]

That's so fascinating! What do you Lebanese friends think about it? Is it like how Italian American dishes are perceived by italians?

BTW I've tried French Tacos and I LOVE IT! I think it could be a huge success in the US, if tweaked for our meat and cheese tastes, like with brisket and cheddar.

[addcommitpush]

I am not sure how your theory can both explain French people both turning their nose at "authentic arabic shwarma" but cheap kebabs being wildly popular at the same time. They're racist only against the authentic versions of foreign foods?

[Swizec]

> but even as an American with extremely bad and limited French, most people were very nice

The trick to Paris, I’ve found, is to start with broken French and then suddenly everyone speaks fluent English. But if you start with English you’re screwed.

Even saying “Bonjour” with a decent accent (you can learn it like a song almost) will make them significantly nicer to you.

But yeah don’t expect a big city person to actually verbalize anything if they bump into you in a crowded place. That’s just expected and normal. Not worth aknowledging.

[ethbr0]

100% agreed. Starting with bad French + a self-deprecating expression = much more helpful Parisians

The kids and I joked about how pleasantly lyrical all French greetings are. You have to try to make "Bonjour" not sound nice.

[TechBro8615]

The culture shock of the Paris experience has less to do with vague aspersions against Parisian personality, and more to do with the sudden confrontation of the sight of thousands of unhoused immigrants under a bridge, or dozens of pickpockets at every tourist attraction. You know, the stuff they don't include in the tourist brochures and the movies about Paris.

Personally I found Paris extremely underwhelming - it felt just like New York but slightly more French. I had a much better experience visiting small towns in the south of France. But to be fair to France, I don't think this is an issue unique to their country - it's an issue with tourism to cities. As a tourist I've come to realize that most cities are largely the same across every meaningful dimension. The best travel experiences come from smaller towns and generally anywhere "off the beaten path." As they would say in Thailand, every city is "same same but different."

[ethbr0]

Paris felt extremely different than New York to me.

Firstly, much cleaner. Just in terms of trash/litter on your average street.

Secondly, the integration of metro into the regional train network. Amtrak tries, but it's a sad cousin to European rail systems.

Thirdly, weekend markets and general ingredient quality. Paris feels like it cares about ingredients a lot more than the US. Even canned meals from Franprix were pretty good. And don't get me started on the ridiculousness that is Picard.

Small French towns will always have a dear place in my heart though. If I had my choice, I'd still pick them every time over Paris.

[mytailorisrich]

Paris is definitely much worse than, say, London when it comes to pickpockets, street hawkers, and other nastiness because they actually do very little about those problems...

[Gud]

I disagree. You cannot compare Dubai with Paris - or any othe 1 million+ population city.

They all have their unique story to them. Even cities as close as say Rotterdam, Amsterdam and Antwerp are totally different.

[executesorder66]

2 days late: but what a lot of the responses did not mention regarding specifically Japanese tourists:

Most people in Japan get very little Paid time off compared to the rest of the world. And the work culture is so toxic that people get shamed for actually taking their time off. Now, taking that into account, can you imagine that a Japanese person, actually fighting against that, and doing that big trip to a foreign city on the other side of the world, at great expense. They chose Paris for it's reputation. Now imagine their disappointment when Paris is significantly worse than Tokyo.[0] After all the money, time, and precious time off spent to get there, I too would have a mental breakdown under those conditions.

[0] Can confirm. I have been to both. Paris is nice as long as you don't look at the floor. (It is the only major city I've been to that had human shit on the side-walk in the middle of a major tourist area) Tokyo is better in all regards. It's cheaper, cleaner, has more things to do, is better run, etc.

[dopidopHN]

The tacos you saw are a riff on kebab. They are tacos in name only. ( TINO if you like )

[ethbr0]

I noticed there were French tacos (TINOs), but it seemed like the "taco" popularity was leading to a few closer-to-Tex-Mex taco places as well.

This was around the Bastille, so maybe hipster culture?

Overall, a decent attempt, but the salsa was a miss (no cilantro? and not sure what they did to the tomatoes) and the seasonings were still very French.

The irony is afaict, France has all of the ingredients needed. In typically amazingly-fresh-and-delicious French fashion.

But hey, it was still a better take than the Italian Tex-Mex I had in New England -- cinnamon on tortilla chips?!

[spondylosaurus]

Cinnamon on plain tortilla chips is pretty rough, but if they fried the tortillas first you'd have yourself a delicious buñuelo :)

[dopidopHN]

Good observation… I haven’t lived in Paris since a while but it’s often the same place that serve kebab doing tacos. And most of them put a accent on the meat rather than the fresh stuff around it ( unlike the far superior German kebab )

[piuantiderp]

Bro, no one with a clue goes to Texas for tacos. Maybe Cali, but I don't bother for the most part in the US. Am Mexican

[brookside]

This mysticism about food only being good or authentic in one place doesn't match up with modern internationalism and global supply chains.

There are cooks/chefs from one culture/place in the world living in other spots.

[piuantiderp]

Yes, like one of the best contemporary Mexican chefs lives in the UK of all places. But we're not talking about this broadly.

You talk about the possibility, that it could exist in Texas, and I'm telling you no, in my experience, not in Texas.

[fatfingerd]

Yet regions ruin dishes and then locals from that region complain if anyone makes a good version of them, so it can be extremely hard to find an edible X, especially as a visiting tourist.

[eastof]

Just curious, have you had tacos in El Paso? As a non-expert, strikes me as a place that would have good tacos since half the city is in Mexico.

[piuantiderp]

Even the Mexican side lives in a state of sin as it comes to tacos. If you must, go to Tacos Chinampa.

An apology for coming off so critical but the pretense that food is just as good in the US rarely pans out without breaking out the $$$. Mind you, there are good places, and good food but its the exception and here we are only talking generalities. Just like having good table service.

Unfortunately it is a cultural thing; the food culture that produced, accepts and consumes "I Can't Believe Its Not Butter" cannot have non-"I Can't Believe Its Not Tacos" tacos.

[ferrous69]

there are good tacos all over Texas. Def in El Paso. El Cometa is a chain that's on both sides of the border. Idk what that guy is on about.

[ethbr0]

Hell, I'll even put Taco Bueno up against any other pan-US cheap quasi-taco chain.

It's bad Tex-Mex, but at least it's recognizable.

[pc86]

Thanks for the input bro.

[twmiller]

> That said, on my most recent trip to Paris, I actually found Parisians a lot nicer than the last time I was there (~1995ish?).

My wife and I had the exact same experience. We had been to Paris in the late 90s and when we were there a couple of years ago, we found people to be much nicer than they had been previously. Our theory is that it is / was a generational thing.

[ethbr0]

I chalked it up to increasing globalization. My memory of France in the 90s was that it was way more French.

Now, it seems like American, Japanese, et al. cultures have penetrated a bit, and there's more awareness that there are other-than-French ways of doing things.

Which they'll still do it the French way, because god bless them they defend the hell out their culture, but at least they're more aware of alternatives.

[slater-]

i'm from california. the funniest thing about paris was people repeatedly getting way too fucking close to me on the street. my hackles were constantly going up because some french person minding their own business was breaching my bubble. i wonder how this compares to personal space norms in japan.

[ethbr0]

I've spent more time in Paris than Tokyo, but my memory of Tokyo is that people had no problem being extremely close when necessary.

But they were also exceedingly polite, especially when in close physical proximity and with verbal volume.

I can absolutely see standard French expectations rubbing them wrong.

Which I guess is the point of the article -- no story you read about the wonders of Paris talks about the little nuances of being there. So people are informed about history/art, but little of the day-to-day.

[inconceivable]

everyone was really nice to me in paris.

[P_I_Staker]

I think many foreigners don't try to fit into the aloof European culture where you act like a mildly sociopathic hipster.

I'm not saying that "all of Europe" is like that, but definitely the major cities of many Western European countries.

That said, we have SV / Seattle, so I guess we have our own hipster sociopaths in the USA.