[Narciss]

"As a really senior engineer in the company, of course I have strong opinions and I absolutely have a technical agenda. But If I interact with engineers by just trying to dispense ideas, it’s really hard for any of us to be successful. It’s a lot harder to get invested in an idea that you don’t own. So, when I work with teams, I’ve kind of taken the strategy that my best ideas are the ones that other people have instead of me. I consciously spend a lot more time trying to develop problems, and to do a really good job of articulating them, rather than trying to pitch solutions. There are often multiple ways to solve a problem, and picking the right one is letting someone own the solution."

"I learned that to really be successful in my own role, I needed to focus on articulating the problems and not the solutions, and to find ways to support strong engineering teams in really owning those solutions."

I love this. Reminds me of the Ikea effect to an extent. Based on this, to get someone to be enthusiastic about what they do, you have to encourage ownership. And a great way is to have it be 'their idea'.

[rtpg]

I don't mean this to be cynical, but I do think that it's worth acknowledging that describing the problem is also, in itself, a tool to guide people towards a solution they want. After all, people often disagree about what "the problem" even is!

Fortunately not every problem is like this. But if you look at, say, discussions around Python's "packaging problem" (and find people in fact describing like 6 different problems in very different ways), you can see this play out pretty nastily.

[skybrian]

At a toy scale, using ChatGPT's Code Interpreter to do some programming for fun can be an exercise in getting what you want from an inconsistent worker by changing the problem definition (prompt engineering).

This is sort of like:

* writing an exam question so the person taking the exam is likely to get the answer you want

* guiding someone in a code interview that isn't going so well, without giving away the answer

* being in the back seat while pair programming, except you're not allowed to take a turn at the keyboard

[pgwhalen]

I don't think it's cynical, I think it's the point. Describing the problem is not easy, and to your point, is sometimes controversial.

One advantage of focusing on describing the problem is that it naturally lets you have an impact on what you believe to be the important parts of the solution.

[rtpg]

I just want to acknowledge that describing the problem is part of picking the solution, and it's not really _that much_ of a "I'm making the most neutral action and letting other people actually choose the solution".

Honestly the "real" hands off thing is letting somebody else also describe the problem and then probing it. But that might lead to a bit too much of an existential crisis for some people. And hey, if something works it works

[pgwhalen]

For sure, it’s only partly hands off. But he is an engineer after all, he should be doing something outside of just managing.

[forrestthewoods]

That section really stood out to be as well.

If Andy Warfield is reading, and I bet he is, I have a question. When developing a problem how valuable is it to sketch possible solutions? If you articulate the problem that probably springs to mind a few possible solutions. Is it worth sharing those possible solutions to help kickstart the gears for potential owners? Or is it better to focus only on the problem and let the solution space be fully green?

Additionally, anyone have further reading for this type of “very senior IC” operation?

[andywarfield]

Here's a really quick story on how i accidentally worked out this strategy by getting it wrong first. When I started at Amazon and was trying to convince the team that we should do certain things, I did what I'd always been trained to do: I wrote down the problem and then sketched a solution to it. Then I'd start floating the doc around to try to get folks excited about it. And invariably, they'd do what they were trained to do, which was to have a critical response to the proposed solution. They'd argue that I was solving it the wrong way, and I'd be in a spot where we'd have a conversation where I was defending a position. But this was the last thing I wanted — I was trying to get everyone excited about fixing a problem, but I slowly realized that when I approached it this way, I was just getting feedback on my proposed solution.

So I started doing an experiment where I'd write that same doc, including the ideas i had on the shape of the work we should do, but then I'd delete my solution before sharing it. To your question: I'd still totally write my solution ideas down. Partially because I can't help myself and honestly it was a helpful way to think things through. But when I deleted it and shared a doc with just a problem statement, I'd get feedback on the problem statement. It's pretty obvious, but it was also a pretty surprising result: all of a sudden i was in conversations where we were all on the same side of the table. Feedback was either refining the problem (which was awesome) or proposing solutions. And when the person reading your problem statement starts trying to solve it, it's really cool... because they totally start getting invested and the conversations are great.

Like everything, none of this is actually either/or. There are points in between, like including a sketch of the shape of a solution, or properties that a solution would have to have. But the overall thing of separating the problem and the end state of where you want to get to, from the solution and the plan on how to get there is a pretty effective tool from a sharing ownership perspective.

[forrestthewoods]

That’s helpful. Thank you!

[tsxxst]

For the "very senior IC", I'd recommend https://staffeng.com

[dylan604]

There's a saying that I'm often told, and I'm sure we've all heard it at some point "don't bring me problems, bring me solutions". It's such a shit comment to make.

I interpret it as if they are saying "You plebe! I don't have time for your issues. I can't get promoted from your work if you only bring problems."

Being able to solve the problem is being able to understand the problem and admit it exists first. <smacksMyDamnHead>

[yashap]

Depends how it’s used. If it’s used in an org where major, high impact problems are ignored, as a way to just say “ignore all problems”, then yeah, it’s a shit comment.

However, if it’s used to legitimately say “don’t just complain, fix”, then I think it’s a positive. An organization where everyone is constantly negative and complaining about every little issue, but not working to implement improvements/fixes, is essentially a failed company. Successful companies are full of people who actively fix the high impact problems, while also being realists, who can accept that the low impact problems aren’t worth the effort to fix, and aren’t worth endlessly complaining about.

[ChainOfFools]

I strongly agree with this perspective but I wish it could be generalized into techniques that work in everyday life, where there isn't already this established ranking of expertise that focuses attention on what is being said and not whether you have the clout or the authority to say it.

Because absent preestablied perceived authority or expertise, which is the context that most day to day problems surface within, holding forth and hogging the entire two-way discussion channel with your long detailed and carefully articulated description of the problem is going to make you sound like someone who wants to do all the talking and none of the work, or the kind of person who doesn't want to share in finding a solution together with others.

[niscocity35]

this only works if your team are made up of smart competent people.