[bananapub]

summary:

1. it's still "visa-free", but increasingly countries are making that shit by requiring an "electronic travel authority" which is not technically a visa but is a bit of imaginary paper you get in exchange for money (e.g. Australia and the US)

2. the US already requires EU citizens to do this exact fucking thing to enter the US: https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/

3. the US refused to even grant visa free access at all to some EU citizens (those from Romania and Bulgaria): https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-visa-reciprocity-wi...

it is unfortunate that ~2003 may end up being a high point for ease of travel for citizens of rich countries

[TechBro8615]

2003? How about pre-1920 when passports weren't even required to enter a country?

[rconti]

I'll trade a slightly slower border crossing for faster trains and airplanes.

[bluGill]

Most trains today actually run slower than their 1920 version on the same track. We invented high speed rail in the 1960s which of course goes much faster, but most trains are not high speed and most operators of regular lines (including subways) have slowed the trains down.

[tim333]

My brief googling suggests this is not so in the UK at any rate.

>Some trains, such as the famous "Flying Scotsman" in the United Kingdom, were able to reach speeds of up to around 90 miles per hour (145 kilometers per hour). However, this was not the norm and most trains had a top speed of around 50-60 miles per hour

They are quicker now - 130mph, 80 mph is normal

[Scoundreller]

They run a lot more smoother nowadays though due to continuous welded rail.

[bluGill]

Despite smoother rail, computer dispatching, and computer safety controls: the trains are still running slower.

[TechBro8615]

Fair enough. There is a certain romance to crossing the atlantic by ship, though. That's been on my bucket list for a while - IIRC a ticket is on the order of $1-2k for a weeklong journey from UK to US.

[atlasunshrugged]

Really? That seems like a very reasonable cost! Any idea where you book something like that?

[hervature]

Any major cruise line has both trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific cruises. You'll have to book two voyages for a round trip or fly for one of the legs.

[CydeWeys]

The round trip idea is unlikely to work well unless you're willing to wait awhile as the cruise ships are repositioning to handle specific seasons (e.g. Northern Europe in the summer, the Caribbean in the winter).

The exception is the Queen Mary II, which is an ocean liner that still does regular trans-Atlantics.

[joker_minmax]

You can be one of the passengers on a cargo ship like Greta Thunberg if cruises aren't for you. There are different places to book.

[soderfoo]

The Queen Mary 2 sails from Southampton to NYC [0].

I think you can get a ticket for less than $1k,though you'd probably be cramped with no window.

[0] https://www.cunard.com/en-gb/find-a-cruise/M509/M509

[kyriakos]

3. And Cyprus. Visiting US requires an embassy appointment for interview that costs 120USD or more now. Takes up to 2 weeks so quick trips are out of the question.

[chrisco255]

You'd want to go back to early 2001, as the BS and red tape ramped up dramatically after 9/11.

[soderfoo]

I'm nostalgic for the pre-9/11 flying experience well except for one thing: anyone being allowed to wait at the gate.

Imagine the mad house if friends and family could accompany a traveler to the gate, or wait for their loved one to arrive?

[pkaye]

> the US refused to even grant visa free access at all to some EU citizens (those from Romania and Bulgaria)

Are Romania and Bulgaria part of the Schengen Area?

[filoleg]

Nope, they are not, but they are bound to eventually join as they are obligated to by their Treaties of Accession[0].

Seems like the grandparent comment just didn't bother checking their facts first and jumped the gun on blaming the US for this, while the US doesn't really have anything to do with it.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

[kyriakos]

It's not actually a schengen issue

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/fr/MEMO_1...

Technically any country of which citizens are allowed visa free entry to eu should reciprocate. Of course this is doesn't seem to apply in practice.

[pkaye]

To be added into the visa waiver program, there are a couple criteria that countries need to meet. Things like reporting lost or stolen passports through INTERPOL. Or accepting repatriation of their citizens that are ordered to be removed from the US.

https://www.dhs.gov/visa-waiver-program

I think last I heard Romania meets all requirements except that B visa refusal rates which is still >3%. I think once Romania is added to Schengen Area the refusal rate should drop a lot since many of those individuals can have an easier time moving to other Schengen Area countries for economic reasons.

[Symbiote]

Romania being in the Schengen area makes absolutely no difference to Romanians' rights to work, study or live in other European Union countries.

[pkaye]

So what restriction do they have not being in the Schengen area?

[Symbiote]

They must show an identity card or passport when they cross the border into the Schengen area (or into Bulgaria, Cyprus or Ireland, the other non-Schengen states). Citizens of Schengen states must do the same when travelling to RO/BG/CY/IE.

In some places this is done efficiently — I'll bet Irish and Cypriot airports are fast — but at others, especially the land borders between Romania/Hungary and Bulgaria/Greece, there can be long queues.

Visas for foreigners are managed separately, so a Chinese tourist can take a holiday round Austria and Hungary on a single-entry Schengen visa, but will need an additional visa to enter Romania.

[bananapub]

physical border control between them and their Schengen neighbours. note, "physical" - it doesn't affect their rights to go to or work or live in other EU countries, just how annoying it is to physically cross the border into the Schengen zone.

[akmarinov]

The refusal rate is something that’s completely controlled by the US as it’s based on a subjective interview with a person.

It’s not a “meet this criteria and you’re in”, it’s a “you look poor enough in person to try and stay in the US - denied”

I work for a US based company and my boss and I wanted to visit clients in the states - my boss got denied a visa, because our company had already bought him a ticket…

[bananapub]

it's not just a schengen issue, the EU has decided it's a fairness issue and doesn't want some citizens being treated worse than others.

[nikolay]

No, thanks to us being second-class EU members.

[dheera]

The annoying thing is when you want to visit the EU accidentally.

Like if you're in Switzerland and you just feel like hopping on a train to Italy on a whim. You used to be able to do that, now you need a pre-approval I suppose.

[raverbashing]

They're both in Schengen, so you just do that

[dheera]

US passports don't need Shenanigan visa for Switzerland.

The weird thing is that all the bordering countries need a pre-approval now but not Switzerland itself.

[regularjack]

Like if you're in Mexico and you just feel like hoping on a train to the US on a whim.

[mrguyorama]

Unironically the US should be pushing very very hard to be best buds with Mexico and help it become a stable state that does a lot of our manufacturing. Want to make illegal immigration less of a problem? Help Mexico become a country you want to live in.

[dheera]

If there were trains I'd totally do that. I absolutely love living on border regions and spending weekends in another country where it's possible and cheap.

[sgt]

I have used ESTA. Very simple and worked great for me. And the fee is like 3-4 coffees. Not bad.

[arrrg]

Felt effortless to me, too, but I would still call it a visa.

As instructed on the website we didn’t print anything out, so we just brought our passports and immigration was completely without any problems in Miami. Our passports also weren’t stamped as seems to be common now.

When we got into an immigration check near White Sands national park (closed road and checkpoint next to the road) the guards checking us were nightly confused that our passports weren’t stamped and we didn’t have a visa or any kind of printed documentation. And we were confused that we needed any of that?

One guard went to check on us with his computer, I guess, and everything seems to have checked out. So we didn’t need anything after all, it just seems that when you get into an immigration check those checking you might prefer to not go check with a computer, so printed documentation of some kind can get you going faster. (The guard also told me that we should have printed out documentation that we paid for ESTA?! Which seems confusing to me since presumably if we didn’t have paid we wouldn’t have been let in.)

[sgt]

Oh yeah, I guess (like with many systems) there are tons of edge cases and pit falls one can fall into. I recall my plane ticket having a completely different middle name than my passport, and TSA actually asked me about that. Got real worried for a second. This was back in 2014 entering the US via Atlanta.

[tim333]

Normal visas tend to involve far more bs and expense than ESTAs.

[dzhiurgis]

Yes it is sort of simple. But you need to be aware of it, remember it, fill it in time (some processing can take 2 weeks), carry reference number.

I'm somewhat organised, but didn't really knew I need for for AU. Filled while checking in, but got it 8 minutes after gates closed.

Edit: kinda feel should be integrated with flight booking. The amount of bureaucracy, esp. during covid era, travelling across many countries, with a big party - it's maddening.

[bananapub]

I was not suggesting it was complicated or expensive, just that it is in almost all ways effectively a visa, including that people may be denied for no particular reason (though they can then attempt to get a US visa).