Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by mananaysiempre 1062 days ago
How would one go about exploring “other” real-world systems? I’ve read some old OS textbooks, poked at Symbian and OS/2 books some, and have texts on Oberon and Symbolics in my queue, but the docs for RSX-11 and VMS seem to bury me in operational minutiae without really explaining the design choices, and the Multics docs look like a huge pile of research notes, which is going a bit too far in the other direction. The current bytecode on IBM i is apparentily outright NDA’d, and the RPG docs are eager to presume I know how to operate the original punch-card tabulators. Any pointers?
4 comments

Depending on the system this could range from an easy project that one can do in a few hours to a very long quest. For some research systems (particularly those implemented in the pre-FOSS era or those from companies) it may be impossible to try out the systems without attempting to implement them yourself. However, there are other systems that are available to try out. The ideal situation is a FOSS release, like the MIT CADR Lisp machine code and Interlisp-D. Barring that, the next best thing is some type of freeware or non-commercial license; I think this is the case for OpenVMS, though I could be mistaken. Some systems cannot be obtained easily without traveling the high seas, if you catch my drift, matey (cough Open Genera cough).

I think a lot of value can be gained from not only using software, but by reading papers and manuals, especially when the software is unavailable or unattainable. There’s a site called Bitsavers that is a treasure trove of old documents.

Come to think of it, a significant reason for Unix’s dominance in research and education is its availability, going all the way back to the 1970s when Bell Labs sold licenses to universities at very low prices. Even when licensing became more restrictive in the 1980s, this spurred the development of MINIX, GNU, later BSDs, and finally the Linux kernel, in order to recreate the environment students enjoyed with 1970s Unix. This openness is a far cry from the work of Xerox and Lisp machine vendors, where one needed to have been privileged enough to work for one of these vendors or their customers to use these environments, which were far more expensive than Unix workstations and especially personal computers. Thankfully there’s a wealth of documentation about these non-Unix systems, as well as testimony from their users. In addition, some systems were open sourced. But we must remember the times that these systems emerged, and we must remember why Unix became so dominant in the first place; its openness and availability set it apart from its competitors.

As an amateur OS nerd by 'exploring' do you mean use or read about or both? :)

You can get free access to play around on an IBM i (aka AS400/iSeries/i5) here [0].

Archive.org has (for the moment) Inside the AS/400 [1] by Frank Soltis. He was the father of the System/38 /AS400, and also worked on the Cell processor. I haven't read this edition, but I did read the following edition called 'Fortress Rochester', and it is a good and detailed overview of the system - history, design choices, and hardware/software. As for RPG, it was made to be familiar to punch-card operators/programmers so they could switch to a 'real computer'.

bitsavers has a lot of info [2]. A tech report on the Tandem Nonstop Guardian OS / system [3] was interesting.

[0] https://pub400.com/

[1] https://archive.org/details/insideas4000000solt

[2] https://bitsavers.org/pdf

[3] http://bitsavers.org/pdf/tandem/technical_reports/TR90-08_Gu...

Your best bet is probably the old MVS that was open sourced back in the 70s or 80s and lives on via an emulator called Hercules. Its sufficiently different to be worth a look, it's got a living direct descendent (although that has become increasingly turned into a Unix over the years), and there is enough of a community around it due to it having a very expensive direct descendent that the docs and other tools necessary for working with it are relatively high quality and up to date in comparison to most long dead operating systems.

The issue with it is that there is no way around having to do some pretty serious assembly language work for an instruction set that no longer exists and whose modern descendents probably microcode to hell in order to run some of the old instructions.

"Introduction to Operating System Abstractions using Plan 9 from Bell Labs" is the best operating system book I've seen - and it works through Plan9: https://archive.org/details/plan9designintro It isn't quite real world as Plan9 was never used for serious production, but it is mind opening and doesn't wallow in minutiae.
Get 9front and you would be surprised. Extra software for 9front:

http://shithub.us/

Also:

https://pspodcasting.net/dan/blog/2019/plan9_desktop.html

"Shithub is a community service, written by people who avoid browsers."