[kogir]

You're essentially saying that trying to do Loopt at all was a mistake and we just should have done something else.

Everyone seems to forget that before iPhone, and later Android, you had no choice but to partner with carriers - there was no other way to distribute your application.

Even in Europe, where the phone ecosystem is different, access to location required carrier support, and nearly no handsets had the ability to locate themselves without network assistance.

Loopt made mistakes, many of which were mine, but that wasn't one of them.

[Alex3917]

"You're essentially saying that trying to do Loopt at all was a mistake and we just should have done something else."

Which is a perfectly valid option. Just because someone has an idea a good idea doesn't mean that it will make a good business.

The cell phone software market pre-iPhone simply wasn't a good place to be starting a business, no matter what the idea.

[kogir]

While you're absolutely right, I don't think the OP realized that's what he was saying, or he would have written it. I was merely pointing this out.

There were successes though, even back then. It was a long shot, yes, but not a proven dead end.

[OoTheNigerian]

No man. I am not saying Loopt was a mistake. I reiterate that the exclusivity with the carriers was a mistake.

I was in the UK 2008-2010 and you could only get Loopt through American carriers. BTW, far back early 2000s, you could get mobile software from getjar.

[kogir]

Ah, but the difference between exclusivity and these deals taking longer than the average lifespan can't be discerned optically - I assure you that in the early days we were never for any reasonable length of time in a position to offer more than we did.

It took all our effort on both the business and engineering side to do what we did. And then iPhone came out, the world changed quickly, and in retrospect, we were reluctant and missed some opportunities. I would play that part and things after differently if I had another chance - but nothing before.

Things were more complicated then. I could go into boring details, but here's one example - MapKit on iPhone wasn't released until mid May in 2009. We had to maintain our own tile generation and geocoding infrastructure even after that for non-iPhones.

In the end though, international availability didn't matter because the product didn't resonate the way it needed to. Users in the US who weren't using it weren't simply waiting for their foreign friends to join. International availability would have brought more users, yes, but not success.

[OoTheNigerian]

Let me clarify something. I fully respect the effort Sam and you guys put into Loopt to make it something. I just guess I am quite frustrated on your behalf that although you pioneered (at least in my eyes) location, you did not benefit from it.

From outside,it was obvious what was wrong. From outside,it always is.