[ant6n]

Radical solutions are known but don’t involve risky Matrix-Style geo-engineering: very heavy taxation on CO2 emissions, 3x-4x those taxes for aviation emissions (due to radiative forcing), ban on ICE vehicles, successive ban on heating other than heat pumps, phase out of non renewable energy generation, in particular coal and gas.

Parts of these are being tried by the Greens in Germany (part of govt), but everyone is getting totally histerical, with all sorts of influence groups coming out of their holes and trying to shut down all the efforts.

[numbers_guy]

If those policies were global it would be fair. Doing it only in Germany is just making the Germans poorer.

[ant6n]

Germany as one of the richest nations, and one of the largest cumulative polluters, should be a role model here. If everybody needs to do it, somebody needs to start.

[numbers_guy]

The role model nonsense, I never got that. How is that supposed to do anything.

As for the comparative wealth, I already earn 1/3 of what I would in the US, my home is smaller, I don't own a car and I have no A/C. And now I should also be taxed even more, while Americans who already pollute 10x as much keep doing as they please.

Fuck that. That's fucking unfair and I am not willing to do that.

[Animatronio]

I imagine someone in India or China is saying that right now, comparing themselves with Europeans or Americans. BTW I'm with you, imposing drastic changes in lifestyle upon a single country is just not going to work at all.

[numbers_guy]

I think it is fair to allow poorer countries to catch up.

[ant6n]

Crying about supposed unfairness, hows that supposed to do anything.

But it is funny how people who personally make choices that reduce co2 fight against policies that would apply to everyone (well, at least in the same country, given there’s no world government).

[numbers_guy]

Fairness has value in itself. To me it is just as important as climate action.

I am not convinced that making myself poorer as an example would have any impact at all, without the rest of the world playing along. And in any case it is unfair.

I would be for pretty radical action: banning cars, rationing meat/energy/consumption, but it has to be fair. Otherwise I am not willing to do it.