[mattsan]

I had to read this twice - is it really not like in the UK? Is this the first US implementation of "Faster Payments"? Sure people in the UK sometimes use PayPal, Revolut, but most of the time its always just a friend gives (and you save on your banking app) their bank account number and sort code, and you instantly send it across. edit: with no fee

[kylehotchkiss]

No, Wire Transfers have been the official fast settlement method in US for a while. They have a fixed fee associated but given the larger transaction amounts that people generally use it for, it's not a bad thing. Everyday consumers have their silly apps for money transfer (PayPal, Cash app, iMessage Cash). Other than that, people are just used to transactions taking 2-3 days and over drafting because they made another payment and forgot about it. Yay, ACH!

[mattsan]

Ah. Faster Payments in the UK are free.

[vxNsr]

ACH has been next day for like 2 years now at least with every bank and employer I’ve used. I’m sure there’s some banks that didn’t join the next day system, but I haven’t experienced it. Then again being part of a credit union has lost a lot of its allure these last few years, so maybe that’s where you’d see that sort of thing more.

[kylehotchkiss]

I just received a next-day ACH via Apple savings to my credit union. CUs still have their allure, I'll never get over Wells Fargo charging me fees for minimum account balances when I was 18 and working for minimum wage. What a sour taste to leave in a young customers mouth and good way to shoo them away once they start gaining some value.

[rubyskills]

Next business day. How long it takes can also depend on the receiving bank

[kaiuhl]

Yes, and only next day settlement. Because there’s no real time authorization, payments have two business days after settlement for the banks to report ordinary failures like insufficient funds.

How quickly a bank responds in that window depends greatly on the bank. In practice at decent scale, we see banks using every possible hour of that two day window to fail transactions.

An ACH debit made on Friday night technically has until open of business Wednesday to fail.

[cj]

I can think of 0 occasions where I’ve given anyone my bank account info who isn’t a commercial organization (employer, electric company, etc).

I had no idea it was the opposite in the UK.

Edit: with the exception of writing physical checks, of course. I use those when the receiver doesn’t accept Venmo or Apple Pay.

[rowls66]

When you give someone a physical check, you are giving them your bank account info. It is written on the bottom of every check.

[elyobo]

People outside the US stopped using cheques ~decades ago. At 40+ from New Zealand I've literally never paid anyone with one and have been paid with them only a handful of times.

[_delirium]

Oddly, given the context of this thread, the UK is an exception. Or at least it was until a few years ago (I left in 2019). They have Faster Payments, but they also still use (used?) cheques more often than any other non-US country I've interacted with. For example, a number of UK universities still do (or until recently did?) expense reimbursements in the form of paper cheques, when reimbursing people not employed by the institution. One university even mailed a paper cheque, made out in British pounds and drawn on a UK bank, to our French invited speaker! The speaker found it inconvenient/expensive to have to deal with that, but their bank was fortunately able to figure out how to deposit it.

[bostik]

The only time I've seen a cheque in the decade since I moved to UK has been from DVLA. They send refund as a cheque, and for relatively small amounts likely expect a significant fraction of people to never cash it in because handling the bloody things is just annoying.

My bank's mobile app supports cashing them in via camera. Niche use case, but nice to have it for this attempt at government agency nickle-and-diming the populace.

[mattsan]

I've never used or seen cheques been used. Anecdotal though.

[progval]

They are still in use in France from time to time. Typical use cases I have seen are security deposits, and for small non-profits to expense volunteers and getting paid without bothering with payment terminals.

[vxNsr]

You probably have a very small illegal population, here in the US, if you don’t wanna hand someone a ton of cash but wanna pay them for something and they’re not allowed to open a bank account, a check is the easiest way to give them money. They can go to a check cashing place pay the 1-3% fee and cash the check. Otherwise you’re giving them cash or doing some complicated load to a prepaid card.

[PeterStuer]

I remember my father had a checkbook in the 1970's. I never had one, not sure they even exist here anymore (Belgium).

For payments to friends we use bank apps. Usually the receiver generates a QR code for the payment on their phone, which you scan from your bank app, sign with a pincode, and the payment is executed immediately. If you are not near you can also use their account number to transfer money instantly.

[shubb]

I got a cheque book with my first real bank account in 2004, and felt like a real grown up. In the time since, I have written 2 cheques.

However, I have cashed some cheques - a tax refund cheque and a refund for my remaining balance when I closed a utilities account.

They have the advantage, for the sender, that you can discharge your responsibility to offer a refund by sending a letter, rather than having to interact with the other party. Of course these days you could email them a link to a web form.

[grepfru_it]

I am currently disputing an international payment and wire transfer (or walking/driving my happy ass to their office and paying cash) is the only method allowed by the lawyer representing me. That's at least one occasion you are not accounting for (a foreign entity that needs the equivalent of cash to proceed)

[cj]

Right, but it’s likely a law firm you’re wiring to, not an individual.

The GP was saying they use wire transfers between friends day-to-day which isn’t the case in the US.

[grepfru_it]

Touche

[ericpauley]

To clarify: they only take wire transfers and not ACH debit/credit? This seems highly unusual.

[grepfru_it]

They accept ACH. Timing doesn’t allow for ACH to be useful. I could have showed up and handed them cash but would have cost 3x the wire fees!

[TulliusCicero]

> Is this the first US implementation of "Faster Payments"?

No, there's already Zelle, which is fairly popular now, though not as ubiquitous as instant bank transfers in other countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelle_(payment_service)

[gtowey]

Zelle is crap. It was created by banks to skirt regulations which make them responsible for fraud. It exists to make things worse for their customers which is why they pushed people to use it so hard.

[TRiG_Ireland]

The UK and Ireland have identical banking codes (six-digit sort code & eight-digit account number) and constructed IBANs the same way (BIC, sort code, account number), but Ireland switched to using IBANs domestically, while the UK didn't. That means that you in the UK need one interface for domestic payments and a different interface for SEPA payments, while we use the same for both.

[aidenn0]

Wire transfers exist, but have a high fixed-transfer cost ($20 is not unusual).

The larger banks have their own systems that only work within the bank; some smaller banks offer systems that work with any bank that offers the same system.

ACH exists, and I've used it to move money between accounts I own, but there is some friction to set up. I don't know anyone who uses it for C2C payments.

[mattsan]

Damn. We only have to pay fees to the EU after brexit (and I assume internationally too. edit: I've never transferred internationally).

[jackbravo]

This got me surprised too. In Mexico we are also used to giving our bank account CLABE number (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLABE) that is used to transfer without fees and instantly. Even small shops use it to get paid, friends to split dinner, etc.

[sznio]

Poland has BLIK, which links your bank account number to your phone number. Then, just send a transfer to the phone number instead of punching in the 26 digits of the account number. And if you don't want to share your phone number, you can use a temporary six digit code instead.

[folmar]

Mostly the worst system you can imagine from power user perspective: * banks won't let you use it without a bank app (there is one exception that will let you use only some only outgoing transfers through the web page) although it is technically not required * giving out your IBAN is not a problem but I don't want to give everyone my phone number, and the temporary code is temporary * don't ask what happens if you have multiple accounts and multiple phone numbers.

[unmole]

> 26 digits of the account number

That seems rather excessive. Why on earth are Polish bank accounts so long?

[playingalong]

The IBAN 26 digit system is multinational/global.

[unmole]

Only the Country Code and Check Digits are standardised by IBAN. The rest of it is country specific.