[gnicholas]

Of course motor vehicles kill more children — there are orders of magnitude more of them. No one is crying "think of the children". We are just discussing whether it is wise for children to use these vehicles, which types are more/less safe for children, etc. Injury comparisons with motor vehicles they cannot legally drive, and which are in much, much greater supply, are simply not relevant. Show me a stat that looks at deaths per million miles driven, and I'm all ears.

[dghlsakjg]

My original comment was in response to a suggestion of banning an entire category of already regulated e-bikes purely for the sake of children, hence the "somebody think of the children"

If we are going to ban a category of vehicle for the sake of children based on injuries to children, then the logical vehicle to ban is the one that isn’t already speed and power limited.

My position is that it doesn’t matter if the kid is driving cars or not, if large, multi ton, unlimited speed, unlimited power vehicles (cars) are what is killing kids by the thousands, then why are we suggesting banning something which just isn’t as dangerous in an absolute sense.

If you want to compare motor vehicles to bicycles, then let’s add in trains, planes and ferries. And why miles driven and not time spent traveling. There’s a million ways to slice this, but there is no getting around the fact that if your kid dies in a vehicle accident, it’s almost always going to be a car.

By those measures we should get rid of bikes AND cars and stick to public transportation options.

I already think that e-bikes are over-regulated so I push back hard on reactive arguments like the GP. To ride legally I have to limit myself to 2/3 HP (500 watts) regardless of vehicle and rider weight, go no faster than 32kph, ride on road lanes where the other vehicles travel at 2x-3x my speed, wear PPE, have government approved lighting and reflectors, etc.

These things are already massively regulated in ways that limit their actual utility without necessarily helping safety. We don’t need to ban them outright because parents allow their children to do stupid shit on them, or adults are riding them without the proper skills. We don't suggest banning things like downhill mountain bikes even though children ride them, and they are far more dangerous to use as intended than e-bikes.

[jeffbee]

> purely for the sake of children.

That's not what I said. I think e-bikes with throttles are too dangerous to be on the market for any buyer. It is a bad, dangerous human-machine interface. There is a reason that the big e-bike brands do not offer them. Yamaha doesn't. Specialized doesn't. Trek doesn't. It is a proper use of consumer safety regulatory powers to set requirements for the controls on a dangerous machine. Without them, you just get a race to the bottom.

[dghlsakjg]

Why is an ebike with a throttle any more dangerous than any vehicle with a throttle? Why ban them entirely, instead of just limiting them to adults or licensed drivers.

In most states you can buy a 49cc scooter which is heavier, faster, more powerful, and has identical controls and operate it without any specialized training. Is that also something we should ban?

The human interface for a hand throttle on e-bikes isn’t novel, it’s been around for the better part of a century on most motorcycles and that seems to work just fine.

[jeffbee]

A scooter has the primary brake on the same hand as the throttle. It is natural to roll off the throttle to reach the brake lever. A scooter has no control lever on the left hand. A bicycle has the primary brake on the left hand, so there is no natural inclination to release the throttle before braking.

[dghlsakjg]

Gas powered Vespa style scooters absolutely have a control lever in the left hand. Check out the instruction manual: https://www.vespaforum.com/manuals/Vespa/LX50/LX50%202%20Str...

I’m not talking about little electric folding scooters. I never mentioned those.

49cc scooters have the same controls as throttle equipped e-bikes. One brake on each side, and throttle on the right. The only difference is that rear brake on the scooter is on the left.

The main difference is that the ebike is arguably safer since you can’t apply throttle and brake at the same time due to the cutout.