[Timon3]

> For most populations, covid is not nearly as dangerous as what got pushed by the media. We have tons of actual data to back that.

What danger got "pushed by the media"? Are you talking about right-wing media that downplayed the dangers all along ("it's just a flu!")?

> The median age of death from covid is higher than the average life expectancy of a human. Most healthy people under the age of like 70 will handle covid just fine. This is an absolute fact that downplays nothing.

Sure. Most healthy people will still benefit from the vaccines, as they lower the chance for long Covid for the ~10-15% of healthy people who don't handle Covid just fine, and it - you know - keeps those not healthy and under 70 from dying. Small things like that.

> There is nothing that isn't a fact about what I just said. I'm not downplaying anything. You are, in fact, overplaying the risks of covid.

Where have I done that? You just went off and said "it's not that dangerous" without even stating what you're comparing the level of danger to. You were, literally in the most literal sense, downplaying the dangers of Covid while talking up the dangers of the vaccine.

[spookthesunset]

Once you unsubscribe to political tribalism you will see how badly your tribe played you.

Trust me. I was you before these lockdowns. I even phone banked for Obama. I had nightmares when trump was elected. I sneered and disowned trump people. Now I’m a political orphan who will probably never again vote (D).

My (former) political party tossed literally their entire platform to hitch onto covid hysteria.

Stop playing tribalism. It isn’t healthy and sets you up to get played. We are all just people. Most of us are right in the center just trying to live. Both parties are authoritarian, fascist assholes that want to steal your rights.

Covid was and is real but it turned political and not in the way you think. You and a lot of other people like me got badly, badly played. Once you realize that, all the mental gymnastics required to support your takes on covid melt away. And even better, you can finally stop hating other people. Unfortunately it also means you’ll have to accept you probably wasted three years of your very short life playing covid theater and getting all worked up about other people (rightfully) disregarding all of it…

[arghnoname]

Covid and other recent phenomenon have really turned tribal affiliations on their head. In America this is dems vs republicans, but there seem to be nearly equivalent factions in most western nations. I've had a similar trajectory to yours (worked on democratic campaigns, etc), but I drifted outside the tribe bit by bit and was fully out by the time Clinton secured the nomination.

It's not hard to see that each of these factions have taken views (quite stridently in fact) that would have been anathema to their positions not all that long ago. Views can evolve, but we're talking about total reversals in a very short period of time.

This is fine with me, but what's been very eye-opening is listening to the same people who were stridently in favor of view X just a few years ago are now stridently in favor of Not-X, and not only that, they think you're a monster for thinking X.

It's not R vs D, it's tribalism, as you said. I just didn't realize how strong it is and how close-minded it makes people to alternate views. Belonging is clearly an incredibly strong thing in humans, the need for it seemingly making suspension of disbelief involuntary. I'm aware I'm probably _still_ stupidly believing things for no reason than some group I like thinks it, so this isn't me being superior. It's just something we as humans should be wary of.

[Timon3]

> Once you unsubscribe to political tribalism you will see how badly your tribe played you. > Trust me. I was you before these lockdowns. I even phone banked for Obama. I had nightmares when trump was elected. I sneered and disowned trump people. Now I’m a political orphan who will probably never again vote (D).

My guy, I'm not even from America, and I don't cleanly fit into your political system. It's pretty rich of you to say "I was you" when I haven't stated my own position so far. Yes, I know, you want to project your own journey onto me to make it seem like you're more evolved than me - that's what enlightened centrists who just so happen to veer right always say. But if you jump the gun and start this before I clearly state my own position it will just make you look like... well, like you do now.

> My (former) political party tossed literally their entire platform to hitch onto covid hysteria.

Really? The Democrats left their entire platform behind? If I were to compare Bidens platform today with Obamas from 2012 there would be no overlap? Nothing about healthcare, or social services, or taxes etc?

> Stop playing tribalism. It isn’t healthy and sets you up to get played. We are all just people. Most of us are right in the center just trying to live. Both parties are authoritarian, fascist assholes that want to steal your rights.

I'm an outsider looking into the clusterfuck you guys call politics. I'm stating my subjective views as such. What you call tribalism I call "human decency" - calling out people who downplay the dangers of a virus for example is something we should all do for those who can't anymore, because they died.

> Covid was and is real but it turned political and not in the way you think. You and a lot of other people like me got badly, badly played. Once you realize that, all the mental gymnastics required to support your takes on covid melt away. And even better, you can finally stop hating other people. Unfortunately it also means you’ll have to accept you probably wasted three years of your very short life playing covid theater and getting all worked up about other people (rightfully) disregarding all of it…

The funny thing is that you haven't stated any single specific thing that got changed, or that I should change my mind on, or that signifies your move to "the center" (as you call it). It's all just platiudes and big nebulous terms ("my former political party tossed literally their entire platform", "you and a lot of other people like me got badly, badly played", "all the mental gymnastics required to support your takes on covid melt away"). Is it possible for your to say anything of value?