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by dffdsa432 1071 days ago
Do government unions not try to maximize their profits from the public or am I missing something?
4 comments

You look at these crappy companies and the problem you see is unionised staff?

Have you seen the dividends and bonuses at Thames Water, or read the article posted here?

Thames Water's CEO has a $1.5 million pay package which is lower than CEOs of corporations of the same size. The funding for public unions in the UK is $233 billion. Great comparison there.
> The funding for public unions in the UK is $233 billion

That’s a pretty amazing figure, how was that calculated?

Are you seriously arguing that that the Thames Water CEO was underpaid? They have been mismanaged extraordinarily. Their debts, losses, costs, service and environment records are so poor that nationalisation is being discussed. They have been paying dividends and bonuses throughout.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/10/thames-wate...

CEOs of corporations of the same size quite often have to find and retain customers in competitive markets - which is hardly the case with Thames Water?
What is your point? $1.5 million is used to attract a CEO who can manage a large corporation. That is less than many players on second tier English clubs who are riding the pine. That is a rounding error when considering $233 billion paid to unions.
CEOs have almost no competitive pressure. They are mostly recruited within the upper class.

Paying more won't net you a better one.

>CEOs have almost no competitive pressure.

Yes they do, from rival businesses, superior and new technology, just look at Chat-GPT potentially putting programmers out of work, or telegrams being made redundant by pagers, and text messages and email.

@arethuza

>CEOs of corporations of the same size quite often have to find and retain customers in competitive markets - which is hardly the case with Thames Water?

Water companies are delivering a minimum standard of water, call it the least toxic form of water considering the energy constraints and logistics of delivering water en-masse compared to other methods of obtaining water.

Mains water from a very young age always made me sick, so where possible I use bottled spring water in the kettle, but am currently considering a reverse osmosis water filter, to deionise the water in the house as much as possible.

Deionised water is the best tasting, sweetest tasting water I've ever experienced, and if I listened to the medical experts I should be dead on numerous counts of their assertations. So two fingers up to them as well! LOL

"Paid to unions"? Do you mean paid to staff who might be members of unions? And if so why you are comparing money paid to a specific company to money paid to union members across the entire public sector?
As you were asked before where are the unions paid $233bn?

If the RMT had that amount of money I’ve no doubt Mick Lynch would be using it to buy the railways

I don't think you want to point at English football clubs if we're talking about sensible compensation, not least since one of the issues highlighted in the article are the debt load of these English and Welsh water companies.
What is this number of $233 billion, it sounds preposterous.

Is that the combined salaries of all union members?

The 'funding for public unions' is 7% of the economy?
Those in the unions are the public.
> Those in the unions are the public

This is a nonsense delineation in systems thinking. That railroad shareholders are also the public doesn't justify ripping them off.

Unions are beholden to the same impulses towards monopoly and rent-seeking as corporations. Swap members (i.e. sellers of labour) for shareholders (i.e. sellers of capital) and employers (i.e. buyers of labour) for customers (i.e. buyers of goods and services) and union management starts looking remarkably like its corporate analog, churning undifferentiated workers into a differentiated and thus premium block of labour as truly as a mill grinds forests into houses.

"That railroad shareholders are also the public"

They are the public, just not the UK public!

"If you change every detail of both things they're the same thing!"

Labor and capital aren't the same concept no matter how much you scramble them. One is powerful enough that the entire system is named after it.

> railroad shareholders are also the public

Lets see the shareholders:

* French government

* Chinese government

* Australian banks

There are way more customers outside the unions that inside.
Using your faulty logic, the owners of the privatized corporations are public citizens too.
Employees of private companies.. can also join unions! Gasp!
Yes, and? Unions of both sectors try to maximize their profits. Which do not?
As we saw with the recent US rail strike threats, unions do not maximize member profit, but rather member satisfaction. They didn't want more money
They do!