[joenathanone]

I’m currently in the process of getting a whole home RO system to clean all this garbage out of my water, but I can’t do anything about the water my purchased fruits and vegetables are grown in nor the water the animals raised drinking.

[Foreignborn]

For anyone wondering if this works, the EPA seems to think it does:

>>> High-pressure membranes, such as nanofiltration or reverse osmosis, have been extremely effective at removing PFAS. Reverse osmosis membranes are tighter than nanofiltration membranes. This technology depends on membrane permeability. A standard difference between the two is that a nanofiltration membrane will reject hardness to a high degree, but pass sodium chloride; whereas reverse osmosis membrane will reject all salts to a high degree. This also allows nanofiltration to remove particles while retaining minerals that reverse osmosis would likely remove.

>>> Research shows that these types of membranes are typically more than 90 percent effective at removing a wide range of PFAS, including shorter chain PFAS.

https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/reducing-pfas-drinking-wa...

[axus]

Was curious, where does all the stuff that's filtered out go? And then industry sites like https://americanhomewater.com/the-truth-about-reverse-osmosi... raise more questions which probably have better answers.

[yojo]

RO systems use a lot of waste water. So the contaminants get concentrated into that and go out the sewer.

I’ve got one set up for my drinking water and it’s 1:1, so a gallon of waste water for every useful gallon. Others use even more.

[joenathanone]

You can dramatically increase efficiency by adding a permeate pump, search Amazon, they can be had very cheaply, they recycle the concentrate, increasing recovery and filter effectiveness.

[permo-w]

so you go through all the effort of removing them, then release them straight back into the water supply?

[yojo]

That’s… not how it works. The RO membrane keeps contaminants on one side of the barrier, but it requires that they still be in solution. It’s not like you isolate all the bad stuff then mix it back in, you’re just siphoning off some clean water from the rest of the mix.

Obviously I don’t feel great about the waste, but I’ve got two kids under 6 and I’m trying to do what I can to avoid dosing them with this crap.

I do my best to make up for it in other ways - not watering any landscaping, scraping but not rinsing dishes, water off while brushing teeth/lathering hands, low flow shower heads and toilets, etc. But I'm not aware of another way to get sufficiently clean water.

[sokoloff]

What else would you have them do? They are roughly only doubled in concentration and still mixed into hundreds of gallons of water per year.

[yojo]

The average 4 person house uses 190 gallons per day. About 4 of that is drinking water. So my wastewater contains about 2% more PFAS than a household not using an RO system. Assuming that all of it ends up in my body and not in the toilet.

[abduhl]

Good point. Knowingly, too. How much do you think we should fine these people?

[thfuran]

Doesn't that involve passing water through a bunch of plastic filters and then letting it sit in a big plastic holding tank?

[thsksbd]

Sure, but it works :) (except that one company that had a low quality membrane that leached ionomers, lol). Once plastics have leached off their manufacturing chemicals they really are very benign.

The membranes you mention are permeable, basically, only to water. Salt ions are pretty small - if the membrane blocks salt ions, they're going to block just about any molecule [1].

1. for the most part. You can have a molecule that dissolves in the polymer membrane and therefore gets through. A great example is polymer self-diffusion itself (fairly slow) and very short chains of the polymer (faster). But, generally, polymers don't like to mix with anything but themselves (see Flory-Huggins and DeGennes).

[steve_adams_86]

These plastic components are made from relatively stable polymers which don’t contain PFAS.

[onlyrealcuzzo]

It also involves taking all the minerals out of water.

[RetpolineDrama]

Why does this "minerals in the water are important" myth keep persisting?

Do yourself a favor and calculate:

1) The specific minerals in the water you want to consume

2) The daily values for each of those minerals

3) Figure out the water you'd need to drink to meaningfully contribute towards hitting those DVs

Hint: It's in the tens to hundreds of gallons of water per day for tap water.

Filter the water and pop a multivitamin, expecting to get significant "minerals" from tap water is a joke.

[lost_tourist]

sure but you can buy tablets to put them back in, drinking purely distilled water on the regular sound's really bland

[watersb]

> drinking purely distilled water on the regular sound's really bland

Also potentially dangerous.

If you drink a gallon of distilled water all at once, it could screw up electrolyte balance. Screwy potassium levels can cause heart fibrillation.

I would guess that the risk of water that's coming from reverse osmosis is safe for routine use, in the context of a healthy diet.

[refurb]

If you drink a gallon of distilled water all at once, it could screw up electrolyte balance.

No it won't.

You get most of your minerals from your food, not your water. Distilled water has zero health effects.

[watersb]

My daughter just told me, "If you really stretch it, you can make what you post on social media true."

Alas, I must concede the point: upon actual cursory research, drinking distilled water is NOT a health risk.

(I was once admitted to hospital because of crazy electrolyte levels, while presenting other symptoms as well. Is long story. Perhaps it's time for me to stop worrying about potassium...)

[djtango]

Isn't distilled water also bad for your teeth?

[DoingIsLearning]

Fluorinated water is a US thing.

People elsewhere do fluoride varnishes with their Dentists and that is absolutely fine and sufficient.

[RetpolineDrama]

No.

[r00fus]

Food contains minerals. You probably get more water from food than what you drink.

My family lived on distilled drinking water for years with no mineral deficiencies. RO water isn’t as deficient as distilled.

[29athrowaway]

The contamination is already in your organism.

Nonstick pans, food packaging, fish, microwave popcorn, waterproof clothes, contact lenses, and so many other products.

[joenathanone]

Im careful when I can be, but it’s hard to always know the source of your food.

[alliao]

check containers too.. but good idea regardless as it's bioaccumulative so less exposure is better

[SteveNuts]

Which one did you go with

[harrydehal]

You can search the NSF.org certifications here, specifically NSF/ANSI 53 and NSF/ANSI 58:

https://info.nsf.org/Certified/DWTU/Listings.asp?ProductFunc...

https://www.nsf.org/news/pfoa-pfos-reduction-claims-requirem...

P.S. Note the "facility" where these products are manufactured are also listed. One might also want to note that [replacement] filters may also have different country origins.

[joenathanone]

In the process of getting one of these units https://hanspremiumwater.com/reverse-osmosis/

Key features

High efficiency

No need for water storage tank, but optional pressurized tank available

Real-time TDS monitoring via screen on RO unit and free Android/iOS apps.

[RetpolineDrama]

Super frustrating company, just show me the dang price don't link me to a "distributor".

[joenathanone]

I was quoted around 22k, which is on the high side, you can get whole home ro units starting around $2-3k mark, but storage tank + install puts you around 5k minimum, some higher efficiency units can’t also be had for around $10k.

I am willing to spend so much because of the high efficiency, live TDS monitoring and the $20 per month full maintenance plan.

Some of the higher end systems require a lot of fiddling and knowledge to run properly, and most plumbers where I live know next to nothing about whole home RO, so having the maintenance plan which covers, parts, labor and replacement filters is priceless in my book.

[dkqmduems]

Find someone with a LCMS and have your food tested.