[mindslight]

> The ideas that are censored are deemed by the censors to be likely to prevail in a free marketplace of ideas and thus threatening

You're right. Except that you seem to be implying that the "marketplace of ideas" optimizes for worthwhile ideas, rather than ideas that simply make people feel good - despite being terrible in practice, overly simplistic, fallacious, logically incoherent, etc.

These two qualities used to be in much closer alignment when the Internet was dominated by logical types who would at least try to get to the truth of things, modulo that everpresent lure of feeling superior by knowing something that bucks the common narrative.

But at this point we've devolved to full on Gresham's law as applied to ideas. Anything that carries the slightest bit of nuance or reservation demands analysis (slow path) rather than simple team allegiance (fast path). This is multiplied by the dynamic of sharing things verbatim - either quoted or by reference (URL) - which allows one to effortlessly propagate memes while disclaiming attachment to their own reputation.

[NX9mqsSv8]

Presupposes a monolithic marketplace. Locker rooms and scientific journals self-sort. Who decides which ideas are “worthwhile”? We are what we are, indeed what we were meant to be, deplorable as we may be in the eyes of the “elite.”

[mindslight]

No I'm not presupposing some monolithic marketplace, rather just the idea that ideas themselves can be judged and compared - the essence of reason. I think therefore I am. Give me a place to stand and a lever long enough and I'll move the world.

Self sorting directly supports the dynamic I described, because feel-good terrible memes don't fool everyone uniformly. Look at both political herds - each baited with acknowledgement of specific real problems, and then mostly misdirected into avenues that rage against nonsensical bogeymen. It's utterly anti-productive and often self-harming, but it sure makes the participants feel good.

[NX9mqsSv8]

Why would such transcendent elites sully themselves with we unwashed fools wallowing in our cesspits of dopamine soaked fora? Surely such angelic figures mingle among the gods with their levers moving worlds. Can the most high not suffer us peons the fleeting comfort of our ignorant commiseration in our own vulgar impotence? We cattle promise to return to productive obeisance to your wise direction when our brief respite in collective reverie is through, if only we might be allowed to say our piece to our ugly equals.

[mindslight]

I'm not an "elite". And no, I will not condone you wallowing in your self-harming coping memes, of which an overfocus on "elites" is most certainly one.

The "elites" want you to move in their preferred direction, yes. But much of that bearing is just common sense - so pushing in the exact opposite direction out of spite puts you further behind and suits them just as well.

If you actually want to actually assert your own independence, you have to do the excruciating work of using reason to figure out the right direction to push that actually represents your own self interest.