Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by mystertea 1077 days ago
You make some good points here.

1. I stated index in this post (whoops); luckily I called it a list on the website.

2. Partly, in seeking an income strategy, that seemed important to me. Also, frankly, it allowed me to limit the scope of my dataset a bit. Maybe I should go back to the drawing board and include quarterly stocks as well, though.

3. I'll look into it

I'll jump ahead and answer your last question as it's relevant to the others: I'm using Polygon.io's API to pull financial data. I too have noticed that the data can be unreliable, repeats, and has many records missing certain data. I've sanitized that data on my backend, checking for and removing duplicates, as well as only displaying historical records with adequate data. Beyond that, I'm not sure how to improve the quality.

4. What about dividend reinvesting? Can't you avoid taxes if you do that?

5. Is that also true with leveraged funds? It seems like many of these high yield dividend stocks are in that category.

6. Interesting, I'll look into that.

Hope I responded to all of these points adequately. I appreciate the thoughtful and intelligent answer. I'm still not sure (and need to do more research) on whether such a dividend strategy is useless. It seems like reinvesting could provide good returns as a strategy--when the stock dips, so long as the payout is constant, you simply get more income. Maybe I'm missing something, though.

2 comments

Re 4: reinvested dividends are still taxable income.

The way companies get around this (return value to shareholders without triggering a taxable event) is by repurchasing and retiring shares.

For example, there are 100 public shares trading at $1/share. At the end of the quarter, the company has a spare $1. If they issue a dividend, every shareholder gets $0.01, which is taxed.

Instead of issuing a dividend, they repurchase 1 share for $1. Assuming the value of the company hasn't changed, the per-share price should now be $1.01. Basically, they gave you an untaxed $0.01 increase in equity value, which you can choose to recognize on your own schedule.

This might give you another idea, which is to list companies with stock repurchase programs.

Also, re 3: make sure you account for the expense ratio of these funds. Since dividends are relatively volatile (lots of new entrants and exits on the margin), you might be surprised by how much these ETFs charge for their service. Sometimes, it's justifiable as a price worth paying. Other times it isn't, use your judgement and VOO as a benchmark of what bare-minimum expenses look like.

As an example, USOI's expense ratio is 0.85% and VOO's is 0.05%. Over long holding periods, a 17x higher expense ratio is extremely meaningful.

> Instead of issuing a dividend, they repurchase 1 share for $1. Assuming the value of the company hasn't changed, the per-share price should now be $1.01. Basically, they gave you an untaxed $0.01 increase in equity value, which you can choose to recognize on your own schedule.

Small nitpick here - buybacks are taxed as of this year in the US. There is a 1% excise tax paid on stock buybacks (paid by the company, not the stockholder).

Thanks for the reply -- good info in here.

I'll consider adding a section / filter for stocks with repurchase programs. That is an interesting point I didn't consider. It's a bit tangential to theme of this site, but maybe I can make it work.

Factoring in the expense ratio is a very good idea--I'll look into how to add that.

Buybacks are slowly replacing dividends, and the crossover point happened awhile ago, like decades ago:

https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2018/08/19/taking-stock-shar...

Building a list of companies that pay dividends, while excluding buybacks, is like saying "I'm building a list of music that's available on vinyl" while excluding CDs, iTunes, and streaming.

Yes it's a thing you can do, and yes it'll be interesting to some section of the population, but if the underlying goal is overall music (investing / money / income / whatever), then it looks really, really weird.

Valuable feedback here; I appreciate the link. This is a strong case for adding buybacks. I'll look into how I might go about this.
> 4. What about dividend reinvesting? Can't you avoid taxes if you do that?

No. Dividends that are reinvested are still taxable.