[zmxz]

Laravel is prime example of a bad framework trying to reinvent the language, educating young developers to use it and its ecosystem and to never get out of the stranglehold.

I'm not sure what made you think it's an "appropriate" framework, it's literally antipattern on antipattern and it's not even the worst thing, neither is the fact it's 10x slower than anything else out there - what's worst is the blatant lying, bunch of security issues and using it as an advertising platform to push subpar services onto devs stuck with it.

[sn1de]

I don't know the php ecosystem well at all. I just didn't want to come across as 'Rails is the only one true way'. Lots of php folks seem to love it, and it derives a lot from Rails, so I thought it was a fairly safe shout out. But, it is HN after all, so no opinion can be put forth without and equal and opposite negative reaction.

[0xblinq]

What's a good framework from your point of view?

Or do you prefer to not use any framework and instead write your own one on the fly because you're probably going to do it a lot better with all the best practices and no bugs and great documentation?

[zmxz]

Why would you imply I tried to say anything against frameworks in general? My comment was specifically about Laravel because it was singled out as a great framework.

To indulge you, about good frameworks: Symfony, Aphiria. Aphiria in particular because it's small, cuts down on repetitive tasks and doesn't reinvent the language with things like "Macros" or abuse of Reflection or mishandled patterns like singletons - all of which Laravel gets wrong.

Symfony because of active development. Every large tool is bound to be bad at something. Symfony is no exception, however it's not an advertising platform - and Laravel is an advertising platform. Sane choice is to use the tool with maximum benefit and least negative impact.

[0xblinq]

So, what I said.

Micro frameworks that don’t do more than routing. I’d love to see those beautiful reinventions of the wheel people do when using “simple” frameworks for email, ORM, validations, authentication, authorization, cli commands, translations, error and performance reporting, etc etc.