[bischofs]

Okay, we will just ignore the 50-70% of customers who do not want an EV now - We don't want their money. Batteries are getting better every day but a lot of people:

1. Don't live in a house with a charger. 2. Don't want to drive to a DC charger and sit there once a week. 3. Can't afford a $60K SUV for their family. 4. Want lifestyle vehicles like jeeps, trucks, vans etc. that require much larger and more expensive batteries.

[chc]

I don't think the suggestion here is to throw out all the ICE cars currently in production — just to focus all new development efforts on EVs. Everyone would still be able to buy ICE cars if they need them, but the suggestion is for EVs to be the default and ICE to be the "oh, you don't have a garage? We can accommodate that" option.

[bryanlarsen]

The article says that any new ICE designs that have been started should be completed. Given that's a 7 year cycle, that means that manufacturers who follow the advice will be introducing new combustion vehicles for the rest of the decade.

Those designs can then be sold for at least another decade. I hope by 2040 there is little demand for combustion vehicles...

[Shawnj2]

Even then CA and a lot of other places said they’re going to stop allowing sales of new gas cars by 2035 and considering the auto industry could lobby that bill out of existence if they really wanted to that means the major auto players are planning on phasing out EV sales by 2035.

[Gibbon1]

> Okay, we will just ignore the 50-70% of customers who do not want an EV now

Yes exactly. It's a so sad too bad situation at this point. Should be happy you're allowed a car at all.

[nateb2022]

> Should be happy you're allowed a car at all.

Allowed? Who put you in charge?

[Gibbon1]

I have as much power as you do, none at all.

[mholt]

> we will just ignore the 50-70% of customers who do not want an EV now

Most of them do not want an EV because of the charging+range situation. I agree fast chargers need to be more universally available like gas stations are today. Range concerns are relieved when fast charging is everywhere.

Really what I think we need is for gas stations to just put in 2-4 charging stalls. Maybe replace one of their gas pumps with a charger. Electricity is already everywhere, including at gas stations. Our infrastructure will need to upgrade just as much as our vehicles.

> Batteries are getting better every day

More like every decade, but yes. They are trending better!

> 1. Don't live in a house with a charger.

(US) Standard 120v plugs can charge a car. Not much, but can usually recover a daily commute overnight, which is, I dunno, the vast majority of vehicle usage? Even then, a dryer plug can recharge that use in just a couple hours.

That said, apartment complexes and parking garages MUST take action for this to work. But I think consumers will demand it more and more and the pressure will be unavoidable at some point.

> 2. Don't want to drive to a DC charger and sit there once a week.

They're already doing this with gas stations. But you can charge at home or at work or while shopping! Only use fast DC chargers when you're traveling or already out running errands. It's in businesses' best interest to put a couple DC fast chargers in their parking lot anyway.

> 3. Can't afford a $60K SUV for their family.

Not everyone needs an SUV, let alone a $60K one. Besides, as manufacturers commit to making more EVs, they will become more affordable and people WILL buy them.

> 4. Want lifestyle vehicles like jeeps, trucks, vans etc. that require much larger and more expensive batteries.

I don't think gas cars are going entirely away soon, but we should at least flip the ratio so that there are only as many gas cars as there are EVs right now. For the most part, gas cars should be the lifestyle toys; not the other way around.

--

PS. I don't think EV prices will ever stay as low as gas cars (scaled with inflation) since, at least so far, their overall reliability is higher and maintenance costs much lower. So few moving parts. No engine, no transmission, no oil, no explosions (hopefully), and almost no use of brakes! Worst-case scenarios I've seen (rarely) so far include swapping out the battery or replacing the computer. With regular tire and glass care, along with occasional HVAC service, they should last quite a long time. So the higher cost is an investment that yields much longer returns.

[giantrobot]

> Really what I think we need is for gas stations to just put in 2-4 charging stalls. Maybe replace one of their gas pumps with a charger.

You can't just replace one thing with another. Replacing gas pumps with fast charger alone has a ton of problems. The most obvious is even the fastest charging EV charges slower than even a land whale SUV can fill its tank.

I've seen few gas stations with a layout such that someone parked at a pump for 20 minutes wouldn't cause a huge traffic problem both at the station and spilling into the street.

Then you've got to route a high voltage power line right by gas pumps and tanks. Typically at a gas station you want to minimize ignition sources.

Then there's getting enough power to the station itself. If the station doesn't have the right power running to it, say it's only on a single phase power. Tesla doesn't just plop super charger stations just anywhere.

Because charging takes a while charging stations tend to be sited near actual destinations while gas stations are sites at intersections and freeway off ramps. No one will want to use a charger at a gas station and be stuck with only a couple vending machines for food and drink.

It's a better investment to put EV charger at locations a car would reasonably sit for a half hour or more like a parking garage/lot.

[tootie]

The infrastructure will catch up as sales increase. A lot of people who say they don't want them can be convinced pretty quickly. Anyone who wants vehicles that will never be electric can just deal with it and pay exorbitant markups to make us deal with their frivolous emissions.

[Qwertious]

>1. Don't live in a house with a charger.

Just so we're clear: a charger can plug into a normal wall plug, so if you have a garage with a wall plug then you're set. If not, you're talking about paying <$500 (and probably less than half that) for an electricial to fix that.

[tomaskafka]

I live in a center of an European city, just like about 20000 nearby people. No garage, car parked at a random free place in 1 km radius.

I'd love to be able to get an EV, but it's a no go. Also, there are no electric family MPVs.

[smilespray]

There are millions of people without a garage or permission to set up a charging point.

[googlryas]

Sure, and there are about 100,000,000 gas powered cars in the US. Even if every company stopped producing gas cars immediately, there still would be no shortage of gas cars for decades.

[roland35]

Many garages are not attached or people park on the street! Also level 1 charge is reeeeally slow. It works fine with my PHEV (only a 14 kWh battery) but would not be able to charge a fully used EV battery overnight

[phantom784]

What if you live in an apartment complex that doesn't provide charging? Or if you have to park on the street?

[googlryas]

70% of Americans live in single family homes:

https://www.builderonline.com/money/economics/80-percent-of-...

And, many apartment dwellers either have easier access to public transit and walkable tasks, and so make fewer car trips than single family home folk, and they make shorter car trips since they live in a denser environments where everything is closer.

So, I think this issue may be overblown.

[TheLoafOfBread]

So let's just sacrifice 30%? That's such a huge chunk that it can change a government in the elections.

[googlryas]

No, not sacrifice. Even if all ICE car production ended tomorrow, there are 100M cars in the US.

And my point wasn't that apartment dwellers won't get to have cars any more, just that they would rely on destination charging, or hopping over to a supercharger-esque place for 15 minutes/week. I wouldn't want to use public chargers only with my EV, but that is because I live in a rural area and therefore need to drive a lot. If all of my trips were 1/3rd the distance I don't think I would mind using a public charger to stay charged.

[standardUser]

Then go drive your car to a charging station sometimes and make a phone call or eat a sandwich. Is it really so dramatically different than filling up gas at the gas station? The only dramatic difference is EV charging is vastly cheaper for the consumer.

[giantrobot]

It takes only a few minutes to fill a tank with gas. It takes so little time you have maybe just enough time to get a drink out of a vending machine or fridge. No one goes to a gas station to eat lunch. Most gas stations aren't staffed or set up to serve food even if people wanted to.

[standardUser]

Obviously the infrastructure will evolve. People will adapt. The world will keep spinning. I honestly don't understand how most people survive in a constantly changing world when even the slightest deviation from their repetitive norm results in throwing their hands in the air and giving up!

[dm270]

Have a look at Europe. Many many people there live in apartment buildings. Some not even a garage. Others can't install chargers because the owner and the local government all have to agree. It's just not that easy... I myself know people who would happily pay. But the town didn't allow them to have a charger cus then theyd have to allow it for everyone and then the grid around their apartment complex couldn't handle it.

[dragonwriter]

> Just so we're clear: a charger can plug into a normal wall plug, so if you have a garage with a wall plug then you're set. If not, you're talking about paying <$500 (and probably less than half that) for an electricial to fix that.

About 2/3 of US housing units have either a garage or carport; about 1/3 do not, and some carports (especially for units that aren’t detached single-family homes) are detached overhead shelters without electrical infrastructure not convenient to connect to the panel for the home.

[chrisco255]

Yeah and a normal wall plug will run at 20 amps, which will take almost 10x longer to charge a car than a Supercharger. Meanwhile, a ton of people rent and can't arbitrarily add chargers to their home. Even if they own, it's common for many cars to need to park on the street far from access to a plug.

[ngoldbaum]

Assuming you have a garage.

[martin8412]

My option for charging my car would be dropping an extension cable from the fifth floor where I live, down to street level and then to wherever within 1.5km I found a parking space.