[axod]

"java isn't all that it's cracked up to be"

"every java 'engineer' I've known has been a siv"

It depends if you're learning a language to build stuff, or to work with good people (community). As a language, I'd say java rocks most of the time and does a good job of things.

It's similar to javascript. A large number of people who program javascript are really pretty poor programmers, who just program by trial+error, or copy+paste code they found on the web. This doesn't mean javascript as a language is bad though. It just attracts a wide range of users.