[avion23]

>The risks are generally low, but boosting to higher T levels does come with real health risks that should be met with regular testing with a doctor.

Most people don't have a clue. That includes doctors.

- the reference range has been adapted times and times again

- testosterone levels have been falling since industrial times

- for some strange and contrived reasons a lot of people think that the levels of a healthy 18-year old are "unhealthy" as soon as you pass 40. But you should ask yourself what makes it "unhealthy". And why a low level should be "healthy"

Instead of judging the 20 year olds who want to be at the upper range you should have a look at the side effects which come with the lower range. And then have a look at the general population and check for these side effects.

[TaupeRanger]

You are displaying exactly the problematic cherry picking that you are railing against, but from the other side.

Reference ranges are always adapted to specific populations.

Testosterone levels have not necessarily been falling since industrial times - records farther back than 50-70 years are extremely error prone and sporadic since methods of testing have changed dramatically.

Doctors are not saying that a 40 year old having the same testosterone level as an 18 year are "unhealthy" en masse. It is simply normal for the hormone to decrease as one ages. There is no "strange and contrived reason". It's just how the human body works and isn't a problem unless it goes too low and causes dysfunction of some kind.

The reason for lower testosterone is probably very boring and not some insidious thing like you're implying: people are more obese because they eat more calories, and this is strongly linked to lower testosterone levels.

[avion23]

>Reference ranges are always adapted to specific populations.

in this case, reference ranges are adapted so people don't qualify for therapy. The side effects of the low levels don't change just because you change the reference range

>Testosterone levels have not necessarily been falling since industrial times - records farther back than 50-70 years are extremely error prone and sporadic since methods of testing have changed dramatically.

My exhaustive reasearch has shown the opposite. Interestinglingly, even older guys now have higher testosterone levels than younger guys. So you can even see it in the living specimen.

>Doctors are not saying that a 40 year old having the same testosterone level as an 18 year are "unhealthy" en masse. It is simply normal for the hormone to decrease as one ages. There is no "strange and contrived reason". It's just how the human body works and isn't a problem unless it goes too low and causes dysfunction of some kind.

1. doctors say that, en masse.

2. There is some evidence that the lower testosterone levels are caused by injuries and dysfunctions. At least some studies point to that. An analogy: Age doesn't cause bad teeth. Caries and injuries cause bad teeth. If these don't happen, teeth stay healthy. Saying it's normal that your teeth fall out is lazy.

>The reason for lower testosterone is probably very boring and not some insidious thing like you're implying: people are more obese because they eat more calories, and this is strongly linked to lower testosterone levels.

You are partially right. Testosterone is regulated through estrogene. Having high estrogene limits your testosterone production. Obesity and less sport is sufficient.

But a lot of non-obese and healthy people who work out also have low testosterone levels