[zandorg]

Thanks for your response. I'll point out that I'm in the UK, but I don't know whether it's better in the UK than the US. The UK system is pretty effective, and you get disability 'welfare' (called benefits here) to tide you over until you're better.

So, the hospital is free, the drugs are free, the consultant (who checks up on you perhaps quarterly for 20 minutes) is free, and living expenses free too.

Free meaning National Insurance is paid, but you get that paid too.

[abstractbill]

As someone who has lived in both countries for many years at a stretch, I'm very glad that I effectively still have the British safety net because I'm still a citizen and can go back there if I get really sick and lose my job and healthcare here.

[time_management]

I know a lot of Europeans who went back to the EU when they had health problems. This would even work for an American, because many EU hospitals will treat anyone who comes in needing care.

It infuriates me when anti-universal-healthcare people (they still exist) argue that US healthcare is superior because foreigners come over here for medical care. What year are they living in, 1979? Now, people leave the US for critical treatment.

[time_management]

The US healthcare system is terrible. Although some argue that universal healthcare leads to long waits and difficulty getting appointments in some specialties, it's just as bad over here as it is in, say, Canada or the UK. We have all those problems to an equal degree... and medical bills, on top of that.

In Manhattan, some of the top doctors have stopped participating with insurance companies, because the companies (which are manned by the sorts of people who would be in guard towers of prison camps in other kinds of societies) often refuse to pay for bullshit reasons, leaving the doctor unpaid, or "negotiate" pay that is below subsistence level for the doctor. We've had a two-tier health system (insured vs. not) for decades, but now we're approaching a three-tier system (self-insured vs. crappily insured vs. not) because of the sliminess of insurance companies and the crappiness of their policies.

In addition, doctors have to carry malpractice insurance, the premiums of which are set, in large part, on a statewide basis. Base rates can vary by almost two orders of magnitude within a specialty, from a few thousand dollars per year to a few hundred thousand. The high-premium states lose doctors and it becomes almost impossible to get a specialist if you live in one of those states, with 3-month waits for appointments not being uncommon.

The US healthcare system is terrible; it's not just "left-wing propaganda" on the continent that says so. It actually is horrendous. Even many center-right Republicans are coming around to the need for an overhaul of the system.

[nihilocrat]

In Manhattan, some of the top doctors have stopped participating with insurance companies, because the companies (which are manned by the sorts of people who would be in guard towers of prison camps in other kinds of societies) often refuse to pay for bullshit reasons, leaving the doctor unpaid, or "negotiate" pay that is below subsistence level for the doctor. We've had a two-tier health system (insured vs. not) for decades, but now we're approaching a three-tier system (self-insured vs. crappily insured vs. not) because of the sliminess of insurance companies and the crappiness of their policies.

If you are not from the US and/or not already familiar with US healthcare, listen to this person. This is the sort of experience 99% of people on insurance get. Sure, we have insurance, but it's a crapshoot whether the company is going to actually pay for all the expenses it should be. This lulls the "insured" into a false sense of security, and provides a great incentive to not go to the doctor.

[time_management]

The crappitude of US health insurance, one should note, is a relatively new development. In the 1980s and '90s, there were still uninsured people, but it was generally the case that, if you had health insurance, you'd get every treatment that was necessary, pretty much fully paid. This is no longer remotely true.

If universal healthcare is implemented and these insurance gangsters are no longer needed, an added bonus will be the glorious contraction and meltdown of this rancid boil of an industry. When the stock of my utterly evil health insurance company (HealthNet) hits $0, I'm taking the day off from work to celebrate.