[Terretta]

I paid for Reddit Premium for an ad-free experience. Reddit makes no ad revenue from me. All these moves won't change that for Reddit.

Spez's claim that "the app" is "generating" API calls is nonsense. It's users like you and me that generate API calls using an https client that, in this case, speaks API. Reddit Premium users are their highest ARPU class, over 10x what they claim they can get from advertisers.

It therefore seems obvious to partner with premium app devs, to allow the apps to support Reddit Premium users as a perk of Reddit Premium. Subscribing to both Reddit Premium (paying for ad free access) and app (supporting the app developer) is not a problem for these users.

The Venn Diagram for these two premium spends is clear -- and Reddit is attacking it to no possible gain. There is no alternative business model on the table better for them (and their IPO price) than a premium user remaining a premium user.

By killing my ability to pay for Apollo, they will not gain a single ad view from me, because I pay to not see the ads already.

Further, they will now also lose 10 users worth of ad views, because I will no longer pay for Reddit Premium.

Instead, let Premium accounts access through API, Reddit's Premium user count will balloon, and quality apps will gain a new audience of ready-to-spend subscribers, all with no impact on Reddit's ability to sell ads which make strictly less money than Premium accounts.

(I am confused why this obvious solve is never discussed. News reporting is accepting the premise apps issue API calls instead of users, Spez's AMA is terrible, and community threads are missing this. Apollo dev also fails to help the press understand the framing that Apollo is a user agent and "the web" was intended for use by user-agents. None of this is coming up.)

[Rudism]

While it is confusing why Reddit wouldn't offer it as an olive branch, I don't think allowing Reddit Premium subscribers to access the API for free would be an ideal solution. It would be extremely confusing for the majority of users if they had to both 1) subscribe to Reddit Premium in order to use 3rd party apps at all, and then 2) also pay (likely via a second subscription) to use each specific 3rd party app. Both Reddit and the app developers would probably have to spend a significant amount of user support effort to explain why users need to pay twice (or more if they want to use more than one app) to access Reddit.

Imagine it from the perspective of a user who is new to Reddit and downloads one of those apps off the app store (possibly paying money to do so). After they fire it up they'll discover that they can't even use it until they subscribe to Reddit Premium. Due to app store policies the app can't offer the opportunity to subscribe from within the app, so the best they can do (on Android, at least, Apple doesn't even allow this) is to direct the user to sign up for an account and buy a premium subscription on Reddit itself first. Assume they get past this hurdle and then discover after a week or two that in order to continue using that app they have to sign up for a new, separate subscription through the app store so that the developer can get paid. I imagine a not insubstantial number of users would get extremely frustrated by all of this and take their frustration out on either the app developers or Reddit.

[nnf]

This could be solved by the app developers paying Reddit a portion of what they collect from the users. If Reddit wants $5/mo for each third-party app user, then the app developers could charge what they want above that amount. e.g., Apollo could charge $7.99/mo, of which Reddit gets $5.00 and Apollo gets $2.99 minus Apple’s App Store cut. Different developers could charge different amounts based on the value they provide, but Reddit would get the same amount per user from every app developer.

[PogoPuppy]

This would require a substantial increase in workforce for Reddit. I’m not sure this is plausible.

[ericd]

Why would it require an increase in the workforce? Automatic provisioning and charging monthly per API key isn’t rocket science. I’m sure they have enough engineers to tackle this if the revenue opportunity is significant.

[Terretta]

> confusing for users to both 1) subscribe to Reddit Premium and 2) also pay via 2nd subscription to use each 3rd party app

Except that's already how it works, so no change. And users are not confused.

[sterwill]

My Reddit user experience is similar to yours. I paid for rif years ago because it's simple and fast, and I don't want to see ads. I'll gladly pay Reddit for an ad-free experience if I can use an app that's better than their own, but if they don't want to take my money, they'll lose me as a user.

[BoxOfRain]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Reddit HQ at the moment, also I wonder what it's like to be a dev on the Reddit app too? Don't get me wrong I'm not downplaying how poor the app is (I've gone desktop-only based on how much I dislike it) but it can't be fun having the entire web panning your daily work every time it comes up.

[JohnFen]

I'm guessing that the devs working on Reddit's app are fully aware of why people talk poorly about it. I'm further guessing that it's the way it is because of requirements being imposed on them rather than their own decisionmaking.

I also have to assume they're fine with it all, or they'd take their skills elsewhere.

[refulgentis]

The "obvious" solve was never discussed because:

- there's a vanishingly small minority who pay for apps

- Apollo volunteered to be the asserter of what 3Ps thought and they were extremely aggro

- It's a Solomon's baby situation, it's a worse outcome from all sides: 3P would be _more_ irate, their customer base gets slashed to nothing. Reddit needs to be able to charge for the API without having elaborate carve-outs for monetization schemes from years ago that didn't work

- People aren't thinking straight and are extremely aggressive in discounting others. Sure, the user generates API calls. That doesn't mean the app doesn't make API calls