[Cyclical]

I had the exact opposite experience moving from Canada to San Francisco. While wages are much higher, the cost of living is not even comparable - anecdotally much, much higher in SF than either Toronto or Vancouver (both of which I have lived in). Healthcare has been a horrible experience here too, with Kaiser putting my through endless levels of bureaucracy in an effort to avoid paying for my medication.

[cmrdporcupine]

But when did you leave Toronto? Because the situation is getting exponentially out of control. The housing market in southern Ontario & lower mainland BC is a pyramid scheme. When my wife & I first bought our house in Toronto in 2005 in a "bad" neighbourhood (Oakwood-Vaughan) it was a bit of a squeeze on our dual tech-worker salary, but we were able to do it. Fast forward almost 20 years, we would not be able to afford what that house goes for unless we financed to like, a 35 year mortgage, and my compensation has gone way up from back then.

Meanwhile COVID f'd up the health care system extremely badly and there's no real commitment from the province to getting the funding situation under control.

[thfuran]

>a 35 year mortgage

Is that much longer than normal in Canada? 30 year is the standard in US.

[Tsarbomb]

No it's not normal, they are talking a bit out of their ass. Based on their dates, I'm significantly younger than them and yet I was able to afford a house in one of the more desirable neighbourhoods with only me being the one working in tech.

I'm not targeting the person you are replying to with any malice, but since almost all of the major financial and business institutions in Canada are headquartered here there is an overabundance of people that would claim they work in "tech" when in reality they are making a respectable but decidedly non-tech salaries at places like TD Bank or Thompson Reuters as examples.

The range of possible salaries for devs in Toronto is quite large.

Also as an additional anecdote, every single one of my classmates who went to the USA and decided they would like to start a family, came back to Canada to start that family.

That is not to say it is all rosy here. There is an overabundance of poor or terrible talent that's been shipped in to cover the exodus of Canadian educated people chasing better salaries in the USA while business leaders and purse string holders are content to celebrate their mediocrity while being confused why productivity is so low.

[cmrdporcupine]

Wow, you're classy... and yeah, I feel targeted a bit ... hah

Our old house @ Oakwood & Vaughan was bought for $285,000 in 2005. It's likely "worth" north of $1M now, not 20 years later. My senior software engineer salary in that period was between $75 and $100k CAD. Are you saying that a SWE salary in Toronto is over $300k now?

I know it isn't, though there are plenty making more than that Google Canada, that is a huge anomaly from the rest of the market.

The distortion in housing prices and the continued upward growth has a negative effect on the ability of young people to prosper. It might help me retire, sure, but it isn't going to do much good for my kids.

BTW, I worked as a SWE at Google for 10 years. And my wife was at Apple before that. Does that count as "tech?" Just checking.

[thfuran]

I work as a software engineer at a company whose only products are software. Are you saying I shouldn't claim to work in tech because I don't make FAANG money?