[abeppu]

But you don't pay for the cost. Our continual struggle with environmental issues are substantially that (a) very meaningful externalities mean that costs are foisted onto others, either the public at large or specific unlucky communities and (b) industrial lobbyists get public policy to actively subsidize their behavior, so again, everyone pays to support destructive behavior.

In the case of meat production, apart from the direct agriculture subsidies, and the large carbon footprint, feedlots are a source of pollution that communities have to deal with, antibiotic resistance contributes to (costly) health risks for everyone, the Gulf of Mexico has that giant dead-zone, etc, etc.

[thebigwinning]

It sounds like your issue is with our resources allocation system and meat is just a proxy for it that you don't care for.

[abeppu]

... did you just call someone a communist for daring to disagree with you?

My problem is unnecessarily destructive practices which are causing giant and totally avoidable crises.

If we were running the same meat production system in a centrally planned economy under some "the proletariat deserves meat" party plan with the same concentrated waste from feedlots, reckless use of antibiotics, clearing of the Amazon for ranch land, feeding a large portion of crops like corn and soy to animals that we then slaughter, the resource allocation system would be different but the destruction would be the same, and my objections would be unchanged.

But the "I paid for it and I enjoy it so what's wrong" response seems in bad faith and will not die. Suppose I enjoy the aesthetic experience of seeing oil on ocean waves; it catches the light in such a unique way. On weekends, I buy a barrel of crude, head out in a boat and dump my barrel and just spend the day watching the sun glisten on struggling seabirds. I think most people would not accept the "I paid for the oil; what's the problem" response, because _obviously_ the problem is I'm wreaking unnecessary destruction, and while I owned the oil, I don't own the ocean, the sea-life etc. You might like meat, and you might exchange money for meat, but that doesn't mean you're paying for the problems that meat production is creating.

[thebigwinning]

I didn't say anything about communists. I am arguing that people's complaints about meat or not unique and apply to most other economic goods.

[awb]

In the sense of consumers worrying about their goods creating pollution, yes thats a common concern. Many consumers choose to evaluate goods based on their environmental impact.

But animal meat is different from most consumer goods in the sense that it’s alive and conscious. There isn’t much comparison to other goods there.